From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.eieio,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Cleaning up the EIEIO namespace Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:16:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87sj51fakd.fsf@engster.org> <87k3qcfa4x.fsf@engster.org> <511C39A9.4000403@siege-engine.com> <874nhefvcr.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1360880195 7042 80.91.229.3 (14 Feb 2013 22:16:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:16:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cedet-eieio@lists.sourceforge.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Eric M. Ludlam" Original-X-From: cedet-eieio-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Feb 14 23:16:54 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: sf-cedet-eieio@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([216.34.181.88]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U676o-00032n-Al for sf-cedet-eieio@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:16:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1U676T-0003rk-UF; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:16:29 +0000 Original-Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1U676S-0003re-RW for cedet-eieio@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:16:28 +0000 Received-SPF: softfail (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: transitioning domain of iro.umontreal.ca does not designate 206.248.154.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=206.248.154.182; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com; Original-Received: from [206.248.154.182] (helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1U676R-0004p4-Nu for cedet-eieio@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:16:28 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFFFxKjI/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFFFxKjI/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="1442246" Original-Received: from 69-196-168-200.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.168.200]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 14 Feb 2013 17:16:21 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A98486D7F4; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:16:21 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <874nhefvcr.fsf@engster.org> (David Engster's message of "Thu, 14 Feb 2013 22:17:56 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 1.0 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Headers-End: 1U676R-0004p4-Nu X-BeenThere: cedet-eieio@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: cedet-eieio-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.eieio:143 gmane.emacs.devel:157036 Archived-At: >> Actually, there's a misunderstanding here: >> - setf was indeed part of CL, but being a macro it was accepted >> (i.e. you don't need to have it defined at run-time, since it's >> macro-expanded during compilation). >> - setf is part of core Elisp in Emacs-24.3. >> So maybe we don't need oref/oset at all. > Yes, although I like "(oset foo bar 'baz)" much better than the verbose > (setf (cl-slot-value foo 'bar) 'baz) > But I can understand that you want to get rid of it, and package writers > can still define their own macros/accessors. I actually don't particular care if we keep them or not, except that if we keep them, we need to give them a prefix. > Our problem on the CEDET side is that we want to stay compatible with > older Emacsen, so we'll need some compat package. We can either introduce an eieio-compat package full of defaliases, or do what we did with cl/cl-lib and turn eieio.el into a deprecated compat package (and introduce a new package eieio-lib to replace it). >> We could even justify the "cl-" prefix by making cl-lib autoload >> `cl-slot-value' from eieio.el. Or use the "eieio-" prefix everywhere >> in eieio*.el and then define "cl-" aliases in cl-lib.el. > Doesn't that mean that requiring cl-lib would load the full EIEIO > package? No, it can be autoloaded, like the definitions in cl-macs, cl-seq, and cl-extra get autoloaded. 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