From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What is the most useful potential feature which Emacs lacks? Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 10:19:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <874krvup4i.fsf@gnu.org> <835zcag76g.fsf@gnu.org> <87ftbenz0p.fsf@gnu.org> <83wo4k8r9s.fsf@gnu.org> <20200606095851.GB28645@tuxteam.de> <83v9k48pwn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="63171"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 06 16:20:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jhZgG-000GKb-Mb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2020 16:20:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47940 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jhZgF-0000uq-Pc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2020 10:20:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43626) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jhZfm-0000UR-W4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2020 10:19:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:5965) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jhZfl-0008Nf-7G; Sat, 06 Jun 2020 10:19:45 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 105BC44154A; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 10:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 70073441545; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 10:19:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1591453181; bh=7lpHXj43rpGDTGESl0BWtV36m2Op84MtZKspIJfdGMk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Hq8KLalllLVwrxteWxb80i7/FZRdhzUxWDakVpk73jbQiThr8qRaECNVcplzIGcja gxwJ2lspl1+kCThM6r46SWIQuhTMXaSYUAKF597KIQb/GkJ/bV8HOxotm4h4a1F6iH gwCxTjNHncte6F01siWkbzEHZcP3UEPvFSdrBXqH/tu1IFlGPRcQxhhtZOImfs5PIO uWZNj1zlF5n1ry+IQ5AgQC7XxnU30Y2FQVXCxU7N6qi+vVF0NcCsBsp6oiAtIk2iD2 Q0lsBG9JE2ngMshAaC4C6ykgNXNjVrUxVz4+N8/5vgLKc5wWkQOLqa3BCCdnE56MQO gFDP7vSN+uPMw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [157.52.17.179]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 327341210EE; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 10:19:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83v9k48pwn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Jun 2020 13:11:36 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/06 10:19:43 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251952 Archived-At: > Someone will have to explain why this is useful. Or maybe you can just accept it as something other people might enjoy even tho you don't ;-) > Sitting and looking at other people's typing something, then erasing > and retyping, one character at a time, sounds like a huge waste of > time to me. Yet, as a teacher, I very often am exactly in that situation, where either the student or I write slowly on the board to try and express visually what we want to say. Now, "plain text" like we have in Emacs buffers isn't quite the same, but now that I have to teach via video-conferences, I regularly share my Emacs frame over Jitsi and they watch me slowly type code (and erase and retype) while explaining out loud what it is I'm doing. It may sound slow and painful, but the low speed is actually useful to give them time to understand, and the fact that it's done "live" makes the feedback loop much more effective when it takes several back&forth between the students and I before we come to an understanding. And of course, all that applies as well sometimes when discussing research ideas among peers. > I could use that same time to modify a different section of the same > document, or suggest a solution for a problem in parallel to several > others suggesting their solutions for the same problem (which would > need some processing on top of VC conflict resolution). I'm probably > missing something. Yes, we *also* do that (using Git, typically to share a TeX document or source code) and that's where the meat of work takes place, but at times the fast back&forth of "live editing" (or just talking) is very helpful. Stefan