From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:54:16 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> <87r48m2is1.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> <929DF82A-EF65-415B-84E1-46F23057CDB7@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388962470 1470 80.91.229.3 (5 Jan 2014 22:54:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 22:54:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Florian Weimer , toby-dated-1389972095.0848dd@dr-qubit.org, Richard Stallman , EMACS development team To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 05 23:54:36 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzwaZ-0007IA-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 23:54:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59698 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzwaZ-0002oC-6Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:54:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46120) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzwaP-0002nt-FO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:54:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzwaI-0007xg-4o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:54:25 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:44204) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzwaI-0007xc-0u; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:54:18 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFG4rwsm/2dsb2JhbABEhke4Rxdzgh4BAQQBIzMjBQsLGgIYDgICFBgNJIgeBq5fkk6BI45UgRMDiGGcGYFegxU X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFG4rwsm/2dsb2JhbABEhke4Rxdzgh4BAQQBIzMjBQsLGgIYDgICFBgNJIgeBq5fkk6BI45UgRMDiGGcGYFegxU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="44132206" Original-Received: from 184-175-11-38.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO fmsmemgm.homelinux.net) ([184.175.11.38]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 05 Jan 2014 17:54:16 -0500 Original-Received: by fmsmemgm.homelinux.net (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7B36EAEA58; Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:54:16 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <929DF82A-EF65-415B-84E1-46F23057CDB7@gmail.com> (chad's message of "Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:13:28 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167405 Archived-At: > On the other hand, I=E2=80=99ve showed emacs to a very large number of ne= w college > students over the years, both programmers and non. The keybindings are > confusing to many people. People who accidentally split-window are very > confused. Nobody was ever confused by the location of the modeline, and = it=E2=80=99s > normal for common apps like web browsers to have a =E2=80=9CStatus Bar=E2= =80=9D down there.=20 That corresponds to my experience. The main sources of trouble, AFAICT are: - window management: - how to get rid of a window (e.g. when *Help* introduced a split). - how to get back to a buffer that was somehow buried. - keybindings like C-a, C-x, C-c, C-v - naming (things like windows, frames, kill, yank). Stefan