Back from 28.0.90 to master

Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Hi

I've been using 28.0.90 on Linux and macOS without any major issue. It's my
current "production grade" editor and I'm happy with it. Great many thanks
to Eli for the work and patience.

Going back to master I have encountered the "mode-line" surprise. Why is
the default face for the mode line now variable pitch? It looks ugly to me.
If there is a vote on this, I'll be definitely '-1'. However, it's nice
that we had to try it. Thanks for that.

I have another question for master on macOS. Why is it still relying on
librsvg if the rest of the images are drawn natively? I know that  the
emacs-mac fork is using WebKit to draw SVG. Is that going to be adopted by
Emacs in the (near) future?

Best, /PA

-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

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Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:52:40 +0100
> 
> I've been using 28.0.90 on Linux and macOS without any major issue. It's my current "production grade"
> editor and I'm happy with it. Great many thanks to Eli for the work and patience.

You are welcome, but please don't forget others who worked (and are
still working) hard on this version, it's hardly just me.

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Yes, but suffer the picky ones like me ;-)
/PA

On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 at 09:49, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:52:40 +0100
> >
> > I've been using 28.0.90 on Linux and macOS without any major issue. It's
> my current "production grade"
> > editor and I'm happy with it. Great many thanks to Eli for the work and
> patience.
>
> You are welcome, but please don't forget others who worked (and are
> still working) hard on this version, it's hardly just me.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

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Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Stefan Monnier]

> Going back to master I have encountered the "mode-line" surprise. Why is
> the default face for the mode line now variable pitch? It looks ugly to me.

Apparently the result is highly dependent on the specific font that ends
up being chosen, I suggest you report your experience in more detail
(e.g. telling which font is used for normal monospace text, which font
is used for the variable-pitch mode-line, and trying to explain what
makes it "ugly").


        Stefan

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Stefan Kangas]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> Going back to master I have encountered the "mode-line" surprise. Why is
> the default face for the mode line now variable pitch? It looks ugly to me.
> If there is a vote on this, I'll be definitely '-1'. However, it's nice
> that we had to try it. Thanks for that.

You aren't providing any details about your machine or the fonts used.
It seems to me that the default variable width font in some situations
is not ideal (as in the screenshot Eli provided for his MS-Windows
machine).

Instead of protesting the switch based on that, I'd suggest we improve
the way we pick the font so that we end up with something acceptable (or
even good).

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

Hi Stefan,

tested on a macOS. My -1 goes because their is a lot of movement in the modeline:

The %% and the ** flags have different width. The same happens with the numbers, so if I have the column number activated, moving column by column creates a <joke> belly-dance efect</joke> that despite the joke is quite unpleasant...

So if the mode-line doesn't have things that change too much in time, it may be assumable, but when you need to show things in the modeline that change often, the mode line will be most probably trembling like a jelly-cake.

Best, /PA

Enviado desde mi iPad

> El 10 dic 2021, a las 14:15, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> escribió:
> 
> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Going back to master I have encountered the "mode-line" surprise. Why is
>> the default face for the mode line now variable pitch? It looks ugly to me.
>> If there is a vote on this, I'll be definitely '-1'. However, it's nice
>> that we had to try it. Thanks for that.
> 
> You aren't providing any details about your machine or the fonts used.
> It seems to me that the default variable width font in some situations
> is not ideal (as in the screenshot Eli provided for his MS-Windows
> machine).
> 
> Instead of protesting the switch based on that, I'd suggest we improve
> the way we pick the font so that we end up with something acceptable (or
> even good).

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Stefan Kangas]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> tested on a macOS. My -1 goes because their is a lot of movement in
> the modeline:
>
> The %% and the ** flags have different width. The same happens with
> the numbers, so if I have the column number activated, moving column
> by column creates a <joke> belly-dance efect</joke> that despite the
> joke is quite unpleasant...

I'm not seeing this on GNU/Linux.  Could you post screenshots of what
this looks like before/after?  Please also include the details from M-x
report-emacs-bug so we can see which exact revision you are using.

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Stefan Monnier]

> The same happens with the numbers, so if I have the column number
> activated, moving column by column creates a <joke> belly-dance
> efect</joke> that despite the joke is quite unpleasant...

AFAIK this would be a bug and I'm not seeing this (I haven't tried with
a ≥4-digit column number, admittedly).  You might like to make sure
you're using the latest version if you still see this then
`M-x report-emacs-bug`.


        Stefan

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I suggest we make it easy to specify either fixed-width or
variable-width for the mode line font, make a release with that, then
invite users to tell us which they prefer _and why_.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:08:40 -0500
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> I suggest we make it easy to specify either fixed-width or
> variable-width for the mode line font, make a release with that, then
> invite users to tell us which they prefer _and why_.

The NEWS file already says how to get back the fixed-pitch mode line.

The feature was enabled on master for a limited period, after which we
will collect feedback.  We didn't yet decide how will Emacs 29 be
released in this regard -- it's too early to worry about that, anyway.

Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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OK,
I have narrowed it down with a fresh compile done yesterday and I'm going
to report as a bug...

Best, /PA

On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 at 09:33, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:08:40 -0500
> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> >
> > I suggest we make it easy to specify either fixed-width or
> > variable-width for the mode line font, make a release with that, then
> > invite users to tell us which they prefer _and why_.
>
> The NEWS file already says how to get back the fixed-pitch mode line.
>
> The feature was enabled on master for a limited period, after which we
> will collect feedback.  We didn't yet decide how will Emacs 29 be
> released in this regard -- it's too early to worry about that, anyway.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

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Re: Back from 28.0.90 to master

[Alan Third]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 08:52:40AM +0100, Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez wrote:
> I have another question for master on macOS. Why is it still relying on
> librsvg if the rest of the images are drawn natively? I know that  the
> emacs-mac fork is using WebKit to draw SVG. Is that going to be adopted by
> Emacs in the (near) future?

When I looked at this using webkit to generate images looked to me
like far more hassle than it was worth.
-- 
Alan Third