From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Obsolete functions and variables Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:25 -0400 Message-ID: References: <18429.40810.598948.654442@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <18430.39543.722541.830806@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <18432.2604.646836.981601@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207978492 17172 80.91.229.12 (12 Apr 2008 05:34:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:34:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nick Roberts Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 12 07:35:25 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JkYOW-00013j-ST for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 07:35:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JkYNs-0001Dz-PE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JkYNl-0001Dl-Us for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:34 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JkYNj-0001DS-UO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JkYNj-0001DN-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:31 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JkYNe-0003kn-QE; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:26 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlUFAETn/0fO+KV8/2dsb2JhbACBXak0 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,644,1199682000"; d="scan'208";a="18378645" Original-Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2008 01:34:26 -0400 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.165.124]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id SJU05126; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:26 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id AE7E68C11; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:34:25 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <18432.2604.646836.981601@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> (Nick Roberts's message of "Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:02:36 +1200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95014 Archived-At: > In that case, perhaps the macros should have been called > define-deprecated-variable-alias and define-deprecated-function-alias. > The word obsolete has a pretty clear meaning and is misleading when > used in this way. The intention is to remove them. But the way it works, basically is: mark it as obsolete. Which in turn makes people stop using them, and when people have stopped using them, we can remove them. It may take a *long* time for people to stop using them. And it may happen that people don't stop using them because the alternatives aren't really good enough, in which case we may need to improve the new interface, or we may need to de-obsolete the functionality. It may also happen that people don't stop using them because they want to stay compatible with XEmacs and that XEmacs has decided to not support the new interface. But the intention is still the same: a functionality marked as "obsolete" is scheduled for removal. Can we close this discussion? A more useful one would be to do the work of checking obsoleted functions/variables/packages and see which ones can be removed because they're not used any more. Stefan