From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unable to close a bug in the tracker. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:03 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87iqb5o7ie.fsf@red-bean.com> <87d41dmq3o.fsf@red-bean.com> <87zl4glu72.fsf@red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1263484243 25752 80.91.229.12 (14 Jan 2010 15:50:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:50:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 14 16:50:36 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NVRxy-0000Lt-5l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:50:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55109 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRxy-0003Gt-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:50:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRj6-0002y4-1P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:12 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRj1-0002v6-K1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=50691 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRj1-0002ur-7Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:07 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:54041 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NVRiy-0001et-Tf; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:05 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq8EAAnITktFxLLV/2dsb2JhbACBRdc4hDAEijY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,275,1262581200"; d="scan'208";a="53741234" Original-Received: from 69-196-178-213.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.178.213]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 14 Jan 2010 10:35:03 -0500 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 9FFD670033; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:03 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87zl4glu72.fsf@red-bean.com> (Karl Fogel's message of "Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:58:09 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120001 Archived-At: >> I think it may be a cultural difference. Emacs bugs have always been >> reported and discussed by email. All the tracker really does is hook >> that up to a database so that things don't get forgotten about. > It is a cultural difference, sure. But I'm claiming one of these > cultures is now dominant, so expecting developers to learn this other > culture is unrealistic. Yes, *some* existing developers have learned > these ropes. But the bug tracker is off-putting to *most* developers, > and (I'd bet) to the vast majority of potential new developers. Kalr, please look at it from the other side: not that long ago, all the bug handling was done on a mailing-list and nothing else. That means bug-lossage-galore and the only "web-interface" was the email archive. The current web UI is clearly not as good as we'd like it to be, but compared to what it was before Debbugs, there's no question that it's improved. Given the rate of evolution of Emacs development practice, I think we're doing fairly well. There's hope that within a year or two, the web UI will be usable. Personally, I'd be even more interested in a good debbugs-mode. And that would be useful for all Emacs users, rather than just for developpers. Stefan