bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

[Drew Adams]

emacs -Q
C-h i
 
`Narrow' appears in the list of mode indicators in the mode line, along
with `Info'. This doesn't make sense for Info mode, where widening is
not something to encourage.
 
In GNU Emacs 23.1.94.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2010-03-23 on G41R2F1
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/imagesupport/include'
 

bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:48:25 -0700
> Cc: 
> 
> emacs -Q
> C-h i
>  
> `Narrow' appears in the list of mode indicators in the mode line, along
> with `Info'.

Info was working like that since day one.

> This doesn't make sense for Info mode, where widening is not
> something to encourage.

Why not?  Emacs supports editing Info files, in case you didn't know.

I suggest to close this report, as I don't think this is a bug.  It's
a rather veteran feature.

bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

[Drew Adams]

> > emacs -Q
> > C-h i
> >  
> > `Narrow' appears in the list of mode indicators in the mode 
> > line, along with `Info'.
> 
> Info was working like that since day one.

Yes. But not with an active mode-line button. That was really my point (and I
should have expressed that more clearly).

> > This doesn't make sense for Info mode, where widening is not
> > something to encourage.
> 
> Why not?  Emacs supports editing Info files, in case you didn't know.

I have known, since day one, in case you didn't know.

It is still not something that needs encouraging via a button in the mode line.

I agree that it is helpful to have `Narrow' in the mode line, to let users know
what they're seeing. What I disagree with is that `Narrow' should be an active
button (for Info).

Anyone needing to widen the Info buffer will know enough to do that - s?he won't
need a button for that.

It is the presence of a button that is confusing to non-veterans and encourages
them to get themselves into trouble or more confusion.

There is a reason that `Info-enable-edit' is nil by default. That same reason
supports not having `Narrow' be an active button - at the very least whenever
`Info-enable-edit' is nil.

> I suggest to close this report, as I don't think this is a bug.  It's
> a rather veteran feature.

And I suggest disabling the `Narrow' button, at least when `Info-enable-edit' is
nil. That button is NOT a veteran feature (from day one), and it is not
something that veterans need, in any case.

Try to imagine that you are a newbie and you click mouse-2 on `Narrow'. In Info
that is particularly disconcerting: you are likely to be _very_ confused by what
you see. There is no need for this feature (button) - for newbies or veterans.

----

BTW, when Info edit is turned on, mouse-1 on `Info Edit' in the mode line brings
up an `Edit' menu. The most important operation is missing from that menu:
`Info-cease-edit' (C-c C-c).

bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

[Stefan Monnier]

>> > `Narrow' appears in the list of mode indicators in the mode 
>> > line, along with `Info'.
[...]
>> > This doesn't make sense for Info mode, where widening is not
>> > something to encourage.

Agreed.  This is related to another discussion where we want to
distinguish between different kinds of narrowing (so as to count
line-numbers differently, among other things).


        Stefan

bug#5839: 23.1.94; Remove `Narrow' from mode indicators for Info mode

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> > `Narrow' appears in the list of mode indicators in the mode 
>>> > line, along with `Info'.
> [...]
>>> > This doesn't make sense for Info mode, where widening is not
>>> > something to encourage.
>
> Agreed.  This is related to another discussion where we want to
> distinguish between different kinds of narrowing (so as to count
> line-numbers differently, among other things).

So I'm closing this bug report.  Info mode should be implemented without
"normal" narrowing, so it's not worth trying to make the "Narrow"
lighter go away by itself.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no