From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:12:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389053556 8037 80.91.229.3 (7 Jan 2014 00:12:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:12:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, toby-dated-1389972095.0848dd@dr-qubit.org, Lennart Borgman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 01:12:42 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0KHg-0006ED-Ox for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 01:12:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38166 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0KHg-0006Ow-AN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:12:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50703) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0KHW-0006Nu-I9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:12:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0KHO-00048g-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:12:30 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:27256) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0KHO-00048b-Po; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:12:22 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFFFxKG9/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDiGGcGYFegxU X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFFFxKG9/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDiGGcGYFegxU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="44298433" Original-Received: from 69-196-161-189.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.161.189]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 06 Jan 2014 19:12:22 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D958962F04; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 19:12:21 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:27:09 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167550 Archived-At: > Conceivably we could rename "window" to "pane" and "frame" to "window". > I think the two renamings would have to be done in two different releases, > perhaps a year or two apart. Yup, it'd have to be a many-steps process: - first, rename "window" to "pane" - then rename "frame" to "window" (so frames would have 3 names: screens, frames, and windows; tho admittedly we did finally get rid of the "screen" aliases a few years ago). With a distinction between the Texinfo+docstring level and the Elisp code level. At the Lisp level, after renaming selected-window to selected-pane, we'd have to wait for the selected-window compatibility alias to disappear before we can rename selected-frame to selected-window. I'd estimate that getting rid of the selected-window compatibility alias would take at least 20 years. This said, the "what you call a window is called a frame" is not nearly as problematic as "what we call window is not what you think", so maybe renaming "window" to "pane" would get us most of the benefit. So maybe the first step is the only one that really matters, and maybe my grand children can consider the second step when their time comes. I'm not sure how much change that represents, but if someone wants to take a stab at it... I'd be interested to see what it looks like. Stefan