From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:12:34 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvmur4mubp.fsf-monnier+gmane.emacs.devel@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87pnw037ar.fsf@web.de
> I think so too, but it seems the majority of developers has a different
> option, at least in this (old) thread.
So I guess I'm gonna have to try and argue my case.
OK, here are the advantages I see for `cl-case`:
- simpler doc because its functionality is much more limited.
- easier for people who already know Common-Lisp (or those who learned
`case` from the cl.el package).
- more concise syntax for branches that match multiple constants.
Here are the problems I see with cl-case (regardless of pcase):
- some users naturally write (case X ('a fooa) ...) without realizing
that it also matches thew `quote` value.
- tricky corner cases when trying to match the `t` or `nil` values (or
`otherwise` as well, tho this one is much more rarely needed).
- in (case X (a fooa)), the syntax looks a bit like a call to the
function `a`: emacs-lisp-mode gets confused in terms of
highlighting and completion, last I checked.
- only works with numbers and symbols: can't use it to match against strings.
In the specific case of using `pcase` where `cl-case` could also be
used, the downsides I know of `pcase` are the following:
- because it can also do a lot more, its doc is much more complex.
- you have to use the more verbose ((or 'a 'b 'c) ...) syntax when
matching several alternative values.
- if you forget to quote your constant symbols the code behaves
differently (and arguably surprisingly for some user) rather than
giving you an error, tho in many cases the macro will detect a problem
and give you a warning about a subsequent redundant branch (but the
unsuspecting user will likely find it puzzling and it will take
a while for him to figure out what's going on).
The advantages are:
- it fixes all four problems I described about `cl-case`.
- it can accommodate many more cases, so it offers a smoother evolution.
IOW, you will rarely find yourself having to stop using `pcase` and
to rewrite the code to use `cond` instead just because you need to
add a case that's a bit different from the others.
- once you learn it, you can use it elsewhere, e.g. pcase-let,
pcase-dolist, ...
- Elisp+pcase is simpler than Elisp+clcase+pcase, so if we aim for
overall simplicity we'd be better off without cl-case (to the extend
that `cl-case` is too limited and hence we'll still want to use
`pcase`).
Stefan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-10-23 18:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 387+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-12-16 20:26 The poor state of documentation of pcase like things Alan Mackenzie
2015-12-16 20:53 ` Kaushal Modi
2015-12-17 16:34 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-17 19:22 ` Kaushal Modi
2015-12-17 21:16 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-17 21:56 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-17 22:22 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-18 7:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-18 9:12 ` Rasmus
2015-12-18 9:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-18 9:57 ` Rasmus
2015-12-18 10:13 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-18 10:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-18 16:44 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-18 17:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-18 17:24 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-18 18:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 11:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 11:39 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-19 12:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 20:35 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 20:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 22:23 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-20 3:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-20 22:54 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-20 14:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-18 12:23 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-12-18 10:30 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-18 12:21 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-12-22 5:20 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-17 21:26 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-12-17 23:34 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-18 7:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 15:31 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-22 5:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-22 13:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-18 0:42 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-18 4:07 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-18 10:39 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 15:14 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 19:23 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 21:09 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 21:57 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-20 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-20 9:25 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-21 5:04 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-21 10:15 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-22 5:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-20 13:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-20 13:33 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-20 18:51 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-24 17:46 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-24 17:51 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-24 19:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 19:24 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-18 8:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 15:18 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-22 5:22 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-19 15:55 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 17:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 21:03 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 17:40 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-22 5:21 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-19 15:44 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 17:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 20:58 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-22 5:28 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-19 20:31 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 21:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 22:11 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-20 12:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-24 5:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-24 6:15 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-25 5:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-25 14:59 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-25 16:55 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-26 6:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-26 17:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-26 20:52 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-12-26 23:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-01 7:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-01 17:46 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-01 18:39 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-01 19:05 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-02 8:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-02 8:35 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 0:19 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 2:47 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-03 3:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 3:46 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-03 5:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 3:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 4:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 9:13 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 16:52 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-01-04 1:28 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 15:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 2:05 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 9:03 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-04 2:08 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-04 22:05 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 0:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 1:07 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2016-01-03 1:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 2:49 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-03 10:49 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 1:32 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 2:48 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-03 3:11 ` Noam Postavsky
2016-01-03 3:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 3:55 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 3:45 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-03 3:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 4:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 9:02 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 13:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 14:07 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 14:10 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 14:50 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 14:56 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 14:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 15:15 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 15:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 15:52 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 15:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 17:15 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-03 17:52 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-03 18:17 ` David Kastrup
2016-01-04 2:34 ` Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-04 6:19 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-04 22:07 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-23 13:04 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources (was: The poor state of documentation of pcase like things.) Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 14:43 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-23 14:46 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 14:57 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-23 15:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 15:07 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-10-23 15:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 15:31 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-10-24 13:15 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 15:17 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources (was: The poor state of documentation of pcase like things.) Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-23 17:14 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Stefan Monnier
2018-10-23 17:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-23 18:12 ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2018-10-23 19:52 ` pcase vs. case (where it could also be used) [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-23 20:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-23 22:24 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-24 15:03 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 15:30 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-24 15:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 15:48 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-24 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 17:55 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-24 18:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 18:47 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-27 15:19 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-27 16:56 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-27 22:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-28 0:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-28 2:07 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 2:44 ` pcase ` meaning [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 4:45 ` How other pattern-matching lisps do [Was: Re: pcase ` meaning [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources]] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 13:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-28 17:57 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 23:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-28 22:54 ` pcase ` meaning [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-28 23:09 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-28 23:57 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-29 10:22 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-29 21:33 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-29 23:00 ` pcase ` meaning Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-29 23:57 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 0:17 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 1:40 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 16:05 ` Yuri Khan
2018-10-29 17:26 ` pcase ` meaning [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-30 0:27 ` pcase ` meaning Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 13:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 23:13 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-01 13:22 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-11-01 14:11 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-29 3:26 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-29 21:46 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 0:36 ` What `case' have done you? [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 1:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 6:31 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 15:47 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 17:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 22:09 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-31 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 19:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 20:31 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-31 23:33 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-31 23:44 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-31 23:58 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-01 4:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 12:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-01 14:14 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-01 14:18 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-11-01 14:20 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-05 1:43 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-05 1:46 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-05 16:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-06 1:04 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-25 20:36 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-25 20:42 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-11-25 21:46 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-26 3:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-26 20:57 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-26 22:05 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-11-27 5:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 15:47 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-24 16:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 19:00 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-24 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-24 16:12 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-24 20:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-25 7:17 ` Stephen Berman
2018-10-25 14:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-25 15:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-26 15:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-27 17:48 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-24 4:51 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-24 8:34 ` Joost Kremers
2018-10-24 12:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-24 13:08 ` Daniel Pittman
2018-10-24 14:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-24 13:03 ` pcase pattern syntax (was: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources) Stefan Monnier
2018-10-26 7:16 ` Joost Kremers
2018-10-24 10:16 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources João Távora
2018-10-24 13:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-25 3:11 ` Richard Stallman
2018-10-25 12:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-25 23:53 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-26 14:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-26 15:44 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-27 12:09 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-28 21:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-29 13:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-29 13:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-29 13:47 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-29 21:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-29 21:53 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-29 23:12 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2018-10-29 23:18 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2018-10-30 0:50 ` `pcase'/`case' implementation [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 13:07 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 23:30 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2018-11-01 0:16 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 12:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 17:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 19:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 19:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 19:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 20:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 19:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-01 1:40 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-01 4:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 5:21 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-01 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 19:35 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-01 19:49 ` TEIRLLM
2018-11-03 2:53 ` Richard Stallman
2018-11-04 11:35 ` Nix
2018-11-04 12:40 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-01 19:51 ` TEIRLLM
2018-11-01 20:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 20:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-30 20:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 13:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 13:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 15:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 16:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 16:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 16:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 16:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 16:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 16:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 18:55 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-31 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 19:50 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-31 20:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 20:41 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-01 4:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 20:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 17:48 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-31 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 18:28 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-31 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 19:00 ` Yuri Khan
2018-10-31 19:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 0:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-10-31 19:21 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-31 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 19:31 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-31 20:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 0:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-11-01 1:31 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-31 20:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-01 0:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2018-11-01 1:34 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-11-03 13:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 1:15 ` Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 6:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 12:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 15:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 17:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 17:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 18:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 18:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 18:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 12:08 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-31 12:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 15:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-31 16:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-31 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-01 8:36 ` Achim Gratz
2018-11-01 10:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-11-01 12:29 ` Achim Gratz
2018-11-01 14:19 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-03 13:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-03 15:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-03 16:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-03 17:12 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-03 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-03 22:22 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-04 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-06 0:00 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-06 3:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-11-03 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-10-30 18:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-30 14:16 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-30 15:05 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-30 18:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-30 19:56 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-31 0:08 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-31 3:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-31 16:23 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-11-01 14:44 ` Andy Moreton
2018-11-01 15:28 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-10-30 17:22 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 17:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 23:08 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-31 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-05 2:01 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-11-05 4:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-11-05 23:06 ` Michael Heerdegen
2018-10-30 18:09 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-30 18:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-30 19:00 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-10-31 0:21 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-29 14:47 ` Andy Moreton
2018-10-29 18:49 ` pcase-lambda usage [Was: Re: Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources] Garreau, Alexandre
2018-10-30 23:34 ` Replace trivial pcase occurrences in the Emacs sources Van L
2018-10-31 3:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-10-23 17:22 ` John Wiegley
2018-10-23 17:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-01-04 2:54 ` The poor state of documentation of pcase like things Michael Heerdegen
2016-01-03 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 20:02 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-02 1:15 ` Richard Copley
2016-01-02 3:50 ` Drew Adams
2016-01-02 3:51 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<83y4c9ag06.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-01-01 15:18 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-27 2:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-16 21:01 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-17 13:59 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-17 17:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-12-19 15:26 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 16:04 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 19:29 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 21:14 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 22:06 ` Phillip Lord
2015-12-19 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 17:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-22 5:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-19 18:30 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-12-19 20:42 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-12-19 22:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-12-20 13:11 ` Michael Heerdegen
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