From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Introducing emacs-webkit and more thoughts on Emacs rendering (was Rethinking the design of xwidgets) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:42 -0500 Message-ID: References: <864kmzupp0.fsf@akirakyle.com> <86pn46awrr.fsf@akirakyle.com> <87y2ise7j5.fsf@gnus.org> <87lferb7co.fsf@gnus.org> <20201126082711.GA12134@tuxteam.de> <87im9s3pdh.fsf@logand.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34919"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Richard Stallman , tom@logand.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 22:37:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kilQS-0008yc-Iu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:37:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55578 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kilQR-0005Yv-KW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:37:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33800) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kilPC-0004jL-Fr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:50 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:13045) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kilPA-0005KC-1d; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:49 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 2EFF1100384; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:46 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id ACF6210025D; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:43 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1606512943; bh=qp1EoVn+qY6OPHjUuDhHmxXNLK80ausGqyRd+/E71sY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=LXOswsRhpB7dlqqdKA5kZX4x0Lk1iSmUkgqg16fQlYjyuhqVELxTx5HRFsbasVnHE QoDUpzgi1mCpOO4NA9tyI/ysMqwVL/yMmfVAb+QtaEc6yoh81YXt9jJIY7dE/yi861 aHVpFjtiJSsHRg7fGzxf8I1+HiM9WtZYQkD1M74zyQTjgbfDa7yrkPf+gnh2am2D3e 4W3jLKdd0y/firNlaLUER03ctyYkpV9IPeqPjltxA8Rqi3yR8tWa80Pgx6KxJ0dqSZ g9nxOj/3zKg07A4LVHMmWlxd5ULLHAjr+ChcvMxW6NYBnW7pcFvmyUQzThUxJjzBzx xGv24Vf0Ib4qQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-165-136-52.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.165.136.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71761120312; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:35:43 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:09:28 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:259929 Archived-At: >> The question is what benefit is there to having it linked in as >> a library as opposed to accessing similar functionality via >> a sub-process. > One could programmatically render stuff on top of the video; Sounds highly hypothetical. > I mean you could code a renderer for video just as you made svg > renderer; but somebody already created a re-usable, well tested > library, so why recreate what is already done and tested. That is how > I think of it. Same here: just linking libmpv doesn't magically let you do those things. Until such things are more concrete, it's hard to justify linking a library. The emacs-application-framework is an example of what you can do with sub-processes. > Yeah, I know; but just playing music is a little bit of playing with a > closed box. And it does not work with video. Also as I said it is a bit > about efficiency. I think it would be useful for Emacs to play sound > files and video files natively. Yet there are also packages which let you play videos from Emacs, so it's not limited to music. > For me Emacs is long past just text editor; for me it is more like an > =FCber-terminal or we could call it OS-browser ... I don't know. Just how > I use it, I understand if others use Emacs differently. I think this description applies to pretty much all of us here. It does not imply that linking is necessarily the better path. Linking libraries into Emacs tends to be tricky, costly, and come with a fair bit of consequences, so it needs to justified by fairly solid evidence. Linking them via the module interface can be a good middle-ground BTW. Stefan