From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:28:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28568"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , larsi@gnus.org, Robert Pluim , Eli Zaretskii , 62720@debbugs.gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 18:29:32 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMIm-0007Ex-7P for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=hFW6gQBeetpZRULNH8pLdClzLgZ6aUOIeL//AxfdbudUkS9FGT2ljsk4QNY1oTPPb bTy+Y5oycYibCIdBIRY73UH0YUMbWplgzEOEdc8lhRCjaJo+LCxx06CYRI+0FSq31+ xeNysAM9e3vlh1lrnemcSbXK0URWg/D8wv7WB8tyg8R2fkuqk5c1RwTlvuRtkEjT5s 8XLb0FIlQf3MINlsRUvTvgdkJHSAU3lMUM6FnwTGvWzOC5VRaWm2TRMMOE67rrF1VF M1ZjxOvSM+eE+dxsOzR7hTx/ZgaQnJse+vOrV1S2CzLED9T3Uq0zZlZZkfD30YDij9 rQ3t0UbTadeeg== Original-Received: from alfajor (modemcable005.21-80-70.mc.videotron.ca [70.80.21.5]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7EA00120348; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:28:27 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:05:30 +0100") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259937 Archived-At: > I would think it's too late in the game to break compatibility. > Naming aside package-install has certain behaviour that for a certain > set of inputs used to produce predictable things. > Now, for the same inputs it does nothing on Emacs 29. The only way I can think of to preserve compatibility is to change the behavior so it doesn't pay attention to "is builtin or not" but to "used to be builtin before Emacs-29". This would make a bad semantics even worse, so I'd rather we fix the semantics to something clean. > I think it should do the same thing, not only because it's > nicer for the unsuspecting user, but also because trying to > protect this user from "unintentional" upgrade of certain "unstable" > packages, as it seems to be the idea here, is a losing game > anyway, just because dependencies. You may be right: maybe the distinction between "install only" and "install&upgrade" isn't worth the trouble. I think to get closer to a useful "install only" behavior we'd want that command to prompt the user before upgrading dependencies (tho probably only for those in `package-selected-packages`). BTW, for me the reluctance to upgrade when asked to install isn't due to the risk that the package is "unstable". I'm not completely sure what is the reason, admittedly, but it's closer to viewing it as a silent "change of distribution", or maybe it's because I like to know when behavior may change and merely installing a package shouldn't change Emacs's behavior. Stefan