From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: doc elisp intro cross reference fixes Date: 19 Nov 2003 16:15:55 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87wua28zux.fsf@zip.com.au> <87ad6vdsxi.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <200311190418.hAJ4ITC02466@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200311190528.hAJ5SrK02553@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <3FBBD155.2050703@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069277237 14788 80.91.224.253 (19 Nov 2003 21:27:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:27:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 19 22:27:14 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMZr0-0005tk-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:27:14 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMZqz-0001nZ-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:27:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMamR-0006f9-KR for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:26:35 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMajW-0005st-5G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:23:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMaeO-0003U1-11 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:18:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [132.204.24.67] (helo=mercure.iro.umontreal.ca) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMadc-00035n-LY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:17:28 -0500 Original-Received: from vor.iro.umontreal.ca (vor.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.24.42]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAJLFtbj032758; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:15:55 -0500 Original-Received: by vor.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 8330D3C63E; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:15:55 -0500 (EST) Original-To: Kevin Rodgers In-Reply-To: <3FBBD155.2050703@yahoo.com> Original-Lines: 35 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17929 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17929 > I disagree. It is a useful distinction, and programmers can take > advantage of it to prevent users from setting variables in a way that > they shouldn't (and thence submitting bug reports when they don't get > the desired effect). Can you give concrete examples where the distinction makes sense ? > I don't find the explanation of Variable Definitions in the Emacs Lisp > manual that Luc cited to be too subtle. How many elisp programmers know about it and understand it ? > And I don't understand what startup vs. session time has to do with it: > it only has to do with whether set-variable can be used interactively. That was the distinction proposed by Luc. > set-variable and customize are independent mechanisms that are enabled > by a doc string convention and the custom-* symbol properties > respectively, and as a programmer I'd like to retain control over those > mechanisms. Why should they be independent mechanisms ? What is the benefit ? Why should something be only allowed via M-x customize-variable but not via M-x set-variable (and vice-versa, BTW) ? As a programmer, the distinction seems very faint and I have a hard time coming up with cases where it could make sense to prevent one use and allow the other. As a user it just makes for inconsistency where some variables can be set via M-x set-variable while others need M-x customize-variable. Stefan