bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
etc...)

Please reenable this.



In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10)
 of 2013-10-30 on dell-14z
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11103000
System Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.3 LTS

Important settings:
  value of $LC_MONETARY: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LC_TIME: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: fr_FR.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Emacs-Lisp

Minor modes in effect:
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  git-gutter-mode: t
  psession-mode: t
  golden-ratio-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  global-undo-tree-mode: t
  undo-tree-mode: t
  auto-image-file-mode: t
  eldoc-in-minibuffer-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-descbinds-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  helm-adaptative-mode: t
  helm-match-plugin-mode: t
  helm-occur-match-plugin-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> 
C-z <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> C-g <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> C-s 
c o p y SPC f i l e <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <right> <left> <down> <down> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> C-s C-w C-w C-w C-w C-w 
<right> <left> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <up> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> C-s C-w C-w C-w C-w <right> 
<left> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <down> <up> <up> C-x C-b m o d e C-s r e 
a d - f i l e - n a m e <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <right> <left> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> M-x r e p 
o r t <down> <down> <return>

Recent messages:
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Type "q" to delete help frame.
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Load-path shadows:
/usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/gnus/.dir-locals hides ~/elisp/magit/.dir-locals
~/elisp/auctex/lpath hides ~/elisp/emacs-wget/lpath
~/elisp/Emacs-wgrep/wgrep-ack hides ~/elisp/jenkins/emacs-wgrep/wgrep-ack
~/elisp/Emacs-wgrep/wgrep-helm hides ~/elisp/jenkins/emacs-wgrep/wgrep-helm
~/elisp/Emacs-wgrep/wgrep-test hides ~/elisp/jenkins/emacs-wgrep/wgrep-test
~/elisp/Emacs-wgrep/wgrep hides ~/elisp/jenkins/emacs-wgrep/wgrep
/usr/local/share/emacs/24.3.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/tq hides ~/elisp/emms/lisp/tq
~/.emacs.d/.gnus hides ~/.emacs.d/emacs-config-laptop/.gnus
~/elisp/helm/async hides ~/elisp/emacs-async/async

Features:
(shadow gnus-dired nnir mail-extr gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015
mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum nnoo gnus-group gnus-undo nnmail
mail-source gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win emacsbug
magit-blame helm-command magit-cherry magit-bisect magit-log-edit
log-edit add-log magit-key-mode magit view package iswitchb ediff-merg
ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult ediff-help ediff-init ediff-util ediff
diff-mode magit-compat helm-ring help-mode cl-indent edebug recentf ido
vc-rcs sh-script smie executable jka-compr vc-git naquadah-theme em-unix
em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob em-dirs em-cmpl
em-basic em-banner em-alias align-let git-gutter server
persistent-sessions golden-ratio winner undo-tree diff image-file
newsticker newst-treeview tree-widget newst-plainview newst-reader
newst-ticker newst-backend xdvi-search preview-latex tex-site auto-loads
pcomplete-extension em-term term disp-table ehelp electric helm-ipython
helm-elisp helm-eval python rx eldoc-eval warnings whitespace paren time
avoid savehist smtpmail-async smtpmail sendmail helm-async iterator
simple-call-tree iedit-rect rect iedit iedit-lib smallurl mm-url gnus
gnus-ems nnheader wid-edit rectangle-utils ledger-config ledger esh-var
esh-io esh-cmd esh-opt esh-ext esh-proc eldoc esh-groups eshell
esh-module esh-mode esh-arg esh-util tv-utils async pcvs vc-cvs
pcvs-parse pcvs-info pcvs-defs pcvs-util ewoc mb-depth cl-info
slime-autoloads esh-toggle flymake no-word htmlize dired-extension
emms-mpd-config emms-playlist-limit emms-volume emms-volume-amixer
emms-i18n emms-history emms-score emms-stream-info
emms-metaplaylist-mode emms-bookmarks emms-cue emms-mode-line-icon
emms-browser sort emms-playlist-sort emms-last-played emms-player-xine
emms-player-mpd tq emms-playing-time emms-lyrics emms-url hl-line
emms-tag-editor emms-mark emms-mode-line emms-cache emms-info-ogginfo
emms-info-mp3info emms-playlist-mode emms-player-vlc emms-player-mplayer
emms-info emms-streams later-do emms-source-playlist emms-source-file
emms-player-simple emms-setup emms emms-compat org-config-thierry ob-sh
cal-china lunar solar cal-dst cal-bahai cal-islam cal-hebrew holidays
hol-loaddefs appt diary-lib diary-loaddefs org-wl org-w3m org-vm
org-rmail org-mhe org-mew org-irc org-jsinfo org-infojs org-html org-exp
ob-exp org-exp-blocks org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex bibtex
org-bbdb org-agenda org-annotation-helper remember org-remember
org-datetree addressbook-bookmark message rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader firefox-protocol
bookmark-firefox-handler bookmark-extensions bookmark pp
init-helm-thierry helm-mode helm-ls-git helm-descbinds helm-ls-hg
helm-files image-dired tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs trampver shell
dired-x dired-aux ffap thingatpt helm-buffers helm-elscreen helm-tags
helm-bookmark helm-adaptative helm-info helm-net browse-url xml url
url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars mailcap helm-plugin helm-help
helm-match-plugin helm-grep wgrep-helm wgrep helm-regexp grep
helm-external helm-utils dired compile helm-locate helm helm-config
helm-aliases epa-file epa derived epg epg-config auth-source eieio
eieio-core gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache info cl-macs gv
edmacro kmacro org-crypt org byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv advice
help-fns ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table org-footnote org-src ob-comint
ob-keys org-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-color ring org-list
org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline easy-mmode org-version
ob-emacs-lisp ob org-compat org-macs ob-eval org-loaddefs format-spec
find-func cal-menu easymenu calendar cal-loaddefs net-utils cl
cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel
x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list
newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai
tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help
simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp
files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process
dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Stefan Monnier]

> Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
> etc...)

That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.


        Stefan

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Drew Adams]

> > Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop,
> > defun* etc...)
> 
> That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
> Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.

Misguided, IMHO.  Plenty of people will use Emacs 24.4 (and 25 and
26...) with packages that work also with older versions, and thus
sometimes employ `cl.el' functions (even in addition to `cl-lib.el'
functions).

*Encourage* use of `cl-lib.el' (be positive).  Do not downgrade
Emacs just to make the point that `cl-lib.el' now exists.

Please try to look beyond the snapshot that is the latest nifty
Emacs development to the wider world of Emacs _users_.  There is
no reason to gratuitously make their experience worse.  You gain
nothing by that, and they (and Emacs) lose.

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
>> etc...)
>
> That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
> Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.

I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial and a lot of
applications are still using cl.
What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
remember that many people are using emacs just because there is external
libraries.

BTW I have started a branch with cl-lib+lexical-binding, it is a lot of
work and will not be ready soon.
I still want my current branchs to be fontlocked correctly.
Of course I can switch to emacs-24.3, but IMO it is not fair to disable
cl features.

Thanks for your understanding.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Stefan Monnier]

> I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial

Then we should try and reduce the effort needed.  My experience with
converting most of Emacs's own code to use cl-lib was rather
straightforward: remove the (require 'cl), byte-compile, look at the
output for complaints about unknown functions, search&replace
those names.

> and a lot of applications are still using cl.

I know, which is why `cl' is still fully supported and will remain that
way for a little while.

> What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
> remember that many people are using emacs just because there is external
> libraries.

We're only talking about the color given to symbols like defun*
and loop.  It doesn't seem like that should discourage
external libraries.


        Stefan


PS: the set of macros that are highlighted could/should be determined
dynamically, so that your own local macros can also be highlighted with
the `keyword' face.  I'd welcome a patch that does that, and most likely
such a patch would automatically highlight `loop' when cl.el is loaded.

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Drew Adams]

> > What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
> > remember that many people are using emacs just because there is
> > external libraries.
> 
> We're only talking about the color given to symbols like defun*
> and loop.  It doesn't seem like that should discourage
> external libraries.

This is silly.  If such symbols are present then it helps users
to highlight them.

You don't want the symbols to be present.  Fine.  That's a
different issue.  Not font-locking them when they are present
does not help that aim.

It only hurts users, making their code less readable and so more
difficult to work with.  It does not help you or Emacs in any way.

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>> I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial
>
> Then we should try and reduce the effort needed.  My experience with
> converting most of Emacs's own code to use cl-lib was rather
> straightforward: remove the (require 'cl), byte-compile, look at the
> output for complaints about unknown functions, search&replace
> those names.

You know this is only the emerged part of iceberg.
Switching to cl-lib imply switching to lexical-binding which is not as
simple as replacing prefixes in symbols.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Drew Adams]

The font-locking of cl stuff belongs, whenever that stuff
is still used - for whatever reason it might be used.

If you want to move this old cl-specific font-locking to
the "deprecated" cl code files, so that it is not mixed
in with the general font-locking code, that would be OK.

(Haven't checked - maybe this is already the case, in
which case the regression is even more easily reversed.)

The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
whether or not that code is still being promoted or
recommended.

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Stefan Monnier]

> The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
> whether or not that code is still being promoted or
> recommended.

I already pointed out what kind of patch I would accept which would
provide the behavior you want.  Not sure why you keep on ranting instead
of starting to hack.


        Stefan

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Drew Adams]

> > The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
> > whether or not that code is still being promoted or
> > recommended.
> 
> I already pointed out what kind of patch I would accept
> which would provide the behavior you want.  Not sure why
> you keep on ranting instead of starting to hack.

What you broke has been brought to your attention.  And why
it should be fixed has been pointed out.  Now DTRT.  Or not.

bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked

[Noam Postavsky]

Version: 25.1

In Emacs 25, all macros have font-lock-keyword-face