From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:47:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276271326 12637 80.91.229.12 (11 Jun 2010 15:48:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:48:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 11 17:48:43 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ON6TK-0002jY-QZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:48:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60213 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ON6TK-0005yV-BF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:48:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43663 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ON6TD-0005wS-V7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:48:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ON6TC-0003kN-Go for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:48:35 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:62854 helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ON6SN-0003Uu-E7; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:47:43 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: At4IAFP3EUxMCqeQ/2dsb2JhbACBKp1Qcr9ehRgEjHo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,404,1272859200"; d="scan'208";a="67851521" Original-Received: from 76-10-167-144.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.167.144]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 11 Jun 2010 11:47:42 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 03E1F8056; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:47:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:12:39 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125744 Archived-At: > (I am still dubious about decoupling the arrow keys and C-f/C-b > keybindings. Maybe we should provide a separate set of keybindings > instead.) It's actually not really decoupled. It just switches between "C-f = right and C-b = left" and "C-f = left and C-b = right" based on the paragraph's direction. Which seems eminently meaningful since the associating between "forward" and "right" is just based on our usual convention of writing L2R. Now addmitedly, the particular place where the choice between the two forms of coupling is made is up for discussion: it could be based on the direction of text underneath point (basically, make the arrow move visually rather than logically), or based on the direction of the paragraph (what we now have), or based on user preferences (default depends on the locale). I don't have a clear preference, but I think that the current choice is pretty good compromise between "no need for customization, auto-adjusts to mixes of L2R and R2L buffers" and "still move in logical rather than visual order". Stefan