From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On Contributing To Emacs Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:13 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7903"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: xenodasein@tutanota.de To: xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 28 18:22:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n2GAs-0001q0-L8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:22:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52248 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2GAp-00019n-R5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:22:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2GA5-0000V7-3C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:56802) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2GA3-0003Ll-5w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:20 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 711581001CB; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:16 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 19A3E100163; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:15 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1640712075; bh=vynwsXIv6l+YYE+010Nd4Q2IUOHN49elTIx7LVZn/7I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=GChez8lOdJeSGVKqGQ7KhTfzy0Bb2lp2ynV/3g/2cIPVczKSBBpIBWllfbM4ALaLv W6uV+vht3ewn6ZY/vBSKOqxoK8S/zJClDnLQPpCpLhfosRa0E5sF7Ffpswgy3jTOT0 jbKrHHbjIN9u3CRDKzCpfgJ166TqcWczZxa1y6S1zlA7FPP1BMwxEcKkTh1yoDGtb0 rn+VTPQL2jeTuVULgXKf9TOQ7D9pJiXp5SzE+qRpMitN5mX8WqnwKH5nNlDu/xhXaR 4155Su4AnHQ5xGq/wERNy6wtcX9lbo4jojEdcS+DNH3sQmDvDTHtwIOM9Jfm8ITO0b LbH8Ea8sn//Ag== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [216.154.30.173]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C54B7120247; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:21:14 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (xenodasein's message of "Tue, 28 Dec 2021 13:03:42 +0100 (CET)") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283516 Archived-At: > It's very easy to say "the best choice would have been to fix > package.el", and a lot harder to put in the years of work required > to actually do that. From a purely technical point of view, I stand > by my decision to create a separate project as I believe it was a > much more effective way of quickly bringing about positive change > in the ecosystem, even if the end result was to merge things back > together in the long run. FWIW, I fully agree and I think I would have done exactly the same thing. On many other occasions I've basically done the same. It's actually the standard way for things to happen in Emacs (and probably in many other projects): you first start from scratch based on a new idea, see where it leads you. Later on, once the idea has matured, you may want to go back and see if it can be better integrated with existing elements, but doing so from the start is rarely a good idea. Stefan