From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen Subject: Re: Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:49:59 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <20080714223059.GG3445@muc.de> <20080715013845.GX3675@rzlab.ucr.edu> <877ibl8vjs.fsf@red-bean.com> <87lk01ij7f.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> <87ljzvormp.fsf@red-bean.com> <87wsjdw5co.fsf@grepfind.mwolson.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216842630 30827 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2008 19:50:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:50:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: debian-emacsen@lists.debian.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Olson Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 21:51:19 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLkMf-0002At-7t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:51:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45251 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLkLl-000873-RW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLkLg-00085x-T0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLkLg-00085X-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46718 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLkLg-00085K-7H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]:21008 helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLkLc-0004EP-0T; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:50:04 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq8EAEgoh0hFxIYw/2dsb2JhbACBWrI6gX0 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,239,1215403200"; d="scan'208";a="24725531" Original-Received: from 69-196-134-48.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.134.48]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2008 15:50:01 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 319317F1C; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:49:59 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87wsjdw5co.fsf@grepfind.mwolson.org> (Michael Olson's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:13:11 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101329 gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen:2461 Archived-At: >> Incidentally, while on the issue of debian emacs startup, I have the >> following snippet in my .emacs file for hooking my non-debian emacs >> into the debian emacs package system: >> >> ;; Debian stuff >> (unless (boundp 'debian-emacs-flavor) >> (load "/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup") >> (debian-startup 'emacs22) >> (debian-startup 'emacs22)) >> >> ["emacs22" because there is no emacs23 in debian yet] It strikes me that Debian's Emacsen seem to not be plain enough. I mean, Debian seems to change Emacs's startup.el even tho there's no need for it. Instead of changing startup.el to (load "debian-startup") and call some magic function in it, it'd be much better to leave Emacs's own startup code unchanged and simply provide a site-start.el that loads debian-startup as well as /etc/emacs/site-start.el and all the rest. I can't see why this can't work just a well as the current setup, with the advantage of minimizing the difference between a plain Emacs and a Debian Emacs (and clearly documenting this difference since it's kept in a user-visible file rather than stashed in an internal source file only available if you install the emacs-el package). Stefan