From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="90968"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 18:49:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvKF-000NZZ-Ax for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 18:49:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48152 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvKE-0003wb-EN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:49:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvJl-0003Tx-T6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvJl-0007fR-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:18941) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvJj-0007ey-BJ; Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:43 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 20327814D0; Sat, 2 May 2020 12:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 158BB81189; Sat, 2 May 2020 12:48:35 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1588438115; bh=wjBlhMgUh/7N0XOcyYy3Nz18thiCEB2P3PjhFLGUyzY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=k+skFmE3d9caXO+DV0uEbyigNVJWCiSx612htld0/gJ44C09ampa1Km6V2+lCEJv+ E4Hb9cPoEjYnHJBEPB8ImYC6LRqruBuHhvuEipVLvz4AHVjyjPAtDpDxBUTmmck2nY tPglGh56wSX0afowC7xnVV7sMsovVgdfQoKuBUH0GENrquW6RiscD1IZOSO/Dq6Dws e16ABUmF4fpuHWLJR0YEdpZP1sbr+AbpK0x4rhyd8qJ3pt6UFgPR0Fb9LpXp/xByOI dfLCJrkmJmJq7vCNUD8rRJQSW0NQPGAZX2Q+zv2hXenixUo1SI61w/jAAM11WlrnaS s9RvA6RfQIeWg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACD4E12064D; Sat, 2 May 2020 12:48:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 02 May 2020 17:12:45 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 12:48:41 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 132.204.25.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248494 Archived-At: >> Typical examples: is it `multibyte-string-p` or `string-multibyte-p`, >> `file-name-absolute-p` or `absolute-file-name-p`, ... ? > Then "C-u C-h a WORDS..." is your friend. Nope, way too slow. I shouldn't have to do anything more than `str-mul TAB`. The only reason I have to do more is because of the accidental naming inconsistency. We can't solve all problems by careful naming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't improve our naming when there's a clearly better choice. >> The regexp functions mentioned elsewhere in this thread are another good >> example > No, that's a different example, because a lot of regexp functions > don't have "regexp" in their names. It's a different example, yes, but I think it's a very good one. I use those functions often enough to remember their names, luckily, but for the more occasional user it's not nearly as simple. >> Yes, we can try and improve completion, but we have a real underlying >> problem of irregular naming and completion would just help us paper >> over it. > The command "C-u C-h d regexp RET" brings up 111 matching functions. > Who will have patience looking through that list, unless the likely > candidates are near the beginning? IIUC that means you agree with my argument? > I don't object to this. I'm just saying that the hope this will allow > you to quickly find that-function-you-almost-remember-the-name-of are > overly optimistic. We impose a prefix convention on the rest of the Elisp world, and while some authors don't like it, I find that it is not just useful much more generally than to avoid conflicts, so we should try and use it for Emacs's core as well. It's not a new opinion, BTW: I started doing that back in Emacs-21 with the newcomment.el package which tried to stick to the "comment-" prefix even for things which previously used a different name. Stefan