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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Clojure-like syntactic sugar for an anonymous function literal
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 11:44:34 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvfvb2anpr.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAA01p3pDFRd1KpuUSUUWb1ZO4THH_Fhez53UOhKwHoMW5bdoqQ@mail.gmail.com> (Oleh's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2015 22:38:22 +0100")

>     #(foo bar) should translate to (short-lambda (foo bar))

Hmm...

Not completely sure where I stand on this.
A few notes:
- I like the generality of CL reader macros.
- But extending elisp-mode to understand what's going on (and "do the
  right thing") with each new reader macro is not easy.
  So I'm currently against addition of CL style reader macros.
  In this sense your #(...) proposal is not too bad because the new
  syntax is largely compatible with what we have already (e.g. the (...)
  part is parsed in the normal way).
- In "(lambda (x) (foo bar))" the main problem for me is the visual length,
  so I use pretty-symbols-mode to make it look like (λ (x) (foo bar)).
  #(foo bar) is still shorter, tho, so I like this.
- I'm a functional programmer at heart, so I like making higher-order
  functions more accessible.
- But the current Elisp implementation is not good at handling function
  calls efficiently, so offering a very short syntax like #(foo bar) is
  kind of lying to the programmer.
- Elisp has the particularity that it's used by a very large number of
  people who don't actually know/understand the language, and will never
  really learn it.  OT1H (add-hook 'foo-mode-hook #(define-key toto titi))
  looks simpler, but OTOH having more equivalent syntaxes leads to more
  confusion for beginners.

So I'm not dead set against it, but I'm not really sure it'd be an
improvement either.

Of course, your proposal has 2 parts:
- the #(...) reader syntax.
- the new macro.
They work together but can also be used separately.  E.g. we could have
just the macro and write things like (mapcar (code (+ % 1)) list).
And we could have just the #(...) syntax and give it any meaning we like.


        Stefan



  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-01-22 16:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 78+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-21 21:38 [PATCH] Clojure-like syntactic sugar for an anonymous function literal Oleh
2015-01-21 22:28 ` samer
2015-01-21 22:37   ` Oleh
2015-01-21 23:36     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-21 23:46       ` Oleh
2015-01-22  0:54         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-22  0:57           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-22  1:29 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22  2:21   ` Drew Adams
2015-01-22 13:35     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2015-01-22  7:20   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22  8:04     ` Oleh
2015-01-22  8:16       ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22  9:07       ` Andreas Schwab
2015-01-22  9:19         ` Oleh
2015-01-22  8:52   ` René Kyllingstad
2015-01-22  9:17     ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22  9:27       ` Oleh
2015-01-22  9:38         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22  9:45           ` Oleh
2015-01-22  9:50             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22  9:52               ` Oleh
2015-01-22  9:57                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22 10:05                   ` Oleh
2015-01-22 16:57                     ` Ivan Andrus
2015-01-23  0:54           ` Leo Liu
2015-01-24 23:33           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2015-01-22 10:15         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 10:20           ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22 14:21             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 14:31               ` Oleh
2015-01-23  1:03                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 10:22           ` Oleh
2015-01-22 10:32             ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22 10:40               ` Oleh
2015-01-22 10:56             ` Tassilo Horn
2015-01-22 11:03               ` Oleh
2015-01-22 14:35             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 14:44               ` Oleh
2015-01-23  1:11                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 14:48               ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-23  1:17                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-01-22 11:03           ` Phillip Lord
2015-01-22  9:35       ` René Kyllingstad
2015-01-22  9:45         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22  9:49         ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22  9:53           ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22 10:22         ` David Kastrup
2015-01-22 12:37   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-01-22 12:46     ` Phillip Lord
2015-01-22 12:49       ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22 13:07         ` Oleh
2015-01-22 22:10           ` Richard Stallman
2015-01-23  9:28             ` David Kastrup
2015-01-24  1:09               ` Richard Stallman
2015-01-24  8:29                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2015-01-23 10:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-01-22 16:44 ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2015-01-22 17:22   ` Oleh
2015-01-22 20:34     ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-22 23:36       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-01-22 23:38         ` Reader macros (Was: Re: [PATCH] Clojure-like syntactic sugar for an anonymous function literal) Daniel Colascione
2015-01-23  9:33           ` Reader macros David Kastrup
2015-01-23 11:45             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-23 12:27               ` David Kastrup
2015-01-23 10:34         ` [PATCH] Clojure-like syntactic sugar for an anonymous function literal Phillip Lord
2015-01-23 10:47           ` Oleh
2015-01-23 11:53             ` Phillip Lord
2015-01-23 12:02               ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-23 11:50           ` Daniel Colascione
2015-01-23 13:18             ` Phillip Lord
2015-01-23 20:24           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-01-23 20:52             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-01-23 22:25               ` Phillip Lord
2015-01-23  7:44       ` Oleh
2015-01-22 23:28     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-01-22 18:30   ` Artur Malabarba
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-01-26 22:22 Barry OReilly

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