prompt to create non existent directory.

prompt to create non existent directory.

[Deric Bytes]

Why does emacs not prompt for y/n to create non existent directories. Surely this would be a better option than throwing an error or asking the user to type M-x make-directory.

Is there a better way to add this feature to dired-do-copy instead of this method

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12994164/allow-dired-do-copy-and-dired-do-rename-to-create-new-dir-on-the-fly

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Skip Montanaro]

It happens infrequently enough for me that it doesn't seem to be a great
burden. If it helps, you can probably shorten "make-directory" to:

mak TAB -d TAB RET

Skip

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:36 PM, Deric Bytes <dericbytes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why does emacs not prompt for y/n to create non existent directories.
> Surely this would be a better option than throwing an error or asking the
> user to type M-x make-directory.
>
> Is there a better way to add this feature to dired-do-copy instead of this
> method
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12994164/allow-
> dired-do-copy-and-dired-do-rename-to-create-new-dir-on-the-fly
>

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:36:41PM -0700, Deric Bytes wrote:
> Why does emacs not prompt for y/n to create non existent directories. Surely this would be a better option than throwing an error or asking the user to type M-x make-directory.

It has learnt to do that (I can't say since when, but "my" 27.0.50
does exactly what you wish: very convenient).

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Emanuel Berg]

t wrote:

> It has learnt to do that (I can't say since
> when, but "my" 27.0.50 does exactly what you
> wish: very convenient).

Indeed, seems like a good idea!

On another note, you guys sure are advanced -
I'm only at 24! And it is what is in the repos
as well.

Perhaps Emacs should have its own upgrader just
like the Fallout Pip-Boy for Python and the
tlmgr for TeX. I suppose the [M]ELPAs are sort
of that.

Does a lot of things happen between versions?
I have a printed manual from version 18, and it
comes with lots of propaganda for the GNU cause
as well.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Nick Helm]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 at 22:10:31 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:36:41PM -0700, Deric Bytes wrote:
>> Why does emacs not prompt for y/n to create non existent directories. Surely this
>> would be a better option than throwing an error or asking the user to type M-x
>> make-directory.
>
> It has learnt to do that (I can't say since when, but "my" 27.0.50
> does exactly what you wish: very convenient).

Same here on 26.0.90. Seems this feature will be in the next release. 

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 12:52:18AM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> t wrote:
> 
> > It has learnt to do that (I can't say since
> > when, but "my" 27.0.50 does exactly what you
> > wish: very convenient).
> 
> Indeed, seems like a good idea!
> 
> On another note, you guys sure are advanced -
> I'm only at 24! And it is what is in the repos
> as well.

Self-compiling. Impotant (to me) things are off source, the
rest is distro-managed (for which I am infinitely thankful,
see below)

> Perhaps Emacs should have its own upgrader just
> like the Fallout Pip-Boy for Python and the
> tlmgr for TeX. I suppose the [M]ELPAs are sort
> of that.

I for one *hate* those softwares which go rampant on their
own upgrade schedule and very much prefer the distro doing
this. I trust[1] e.g. Debian much more than some random app
(esp. a web browser). The alternative is Windows, or the
bunch o'apps on your smartphone (I haven't one). Thanks, but
no thanks.

Just the applications I have a special relationship with
get that special treatment, and I like to decide myself
which those are (those apps who seem to "think" they're
special somehow seem to be a reflection of their primadonna
developers. Nasty, I know).

> Does a lot of things happen between versions?
> I have a printed manual from version 18, and it
> comes with lots of propaganda for the GNU cause
> as well.

Because it's a good cause ;-)

But yes, Emacs doesn't make a lot of noise, and has a knack
for relatively painless upgrades, but progresses at a good
pace nevertheless.

Cheers

[1] Trust is a very subjective thing. It kind of reduces to
   "X (in this case the distro) does what I deem to be The
   Right Thing most of the time".

- -- tomás
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Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Amos Bird]

 
Thanks. I'll do a upgrade :)

Nick Helm <nick@tenpoint.co.nz> writes:

> On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 at 22:10:31 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:36:41PM -0700, Deric Bytes wrote:
>>> Why does emacs not prompt for y/n to create non existent directories. Surely this
>>> would be a better option than throwing an error or asking the user to type M-x
>>> make-directory.
>>
>> It has learnt to do that (I can't say since when, but "my" 27.0.50
>> does exactly what you wish: very convenient).
>
> Same here on 26.0.90. Seems this feature will be in the next release. 


-- 
Amos Bird
amosbird@gmail.com

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Deric Bytes]

> It has learnt to do that (I can't say since when, but "my" 27.0.50
> does exactly what you wish: very convenient).

I just downloaded 27.0.50, and I still get an error when I try and do dired-do-copy

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2017 12:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Deric Bytes <dericbytes@gmail.com>
> 
> I just downloaded 27.0.50, and I still get an error when I try and do dired-do-copy

Did you turn on dired-create-destination-dirs?

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Deric Bytes]

> Did you turn on dired-create-destination-dirs?

Thanks Eli, that fixed it.

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Stefan Monnier]

> It happens infrequently enough for me that it doesn't seem to be a great
> burden. If it helps, you can probably shorten "make-directory" to:
>
> mak TAB -d TAB RET

Also, doing `M-x make-directory RET` will usually tell you (after you
specified the dir to use) that you could have used `M-x m-dir RET`.


        Stefan

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Emanuel Berg]

t wrote:

> I for one *hate* those softwares which go
> rampant on their own upgrade schedule and
> very much prefer the distro doing this.
> I trust[1] e.g. Debian much more than some
> random app (esp. a web browser).
> The alternative is Windows, or the bunch
> o'apps on your smartphone (I haven't one).
> Thanks, but no thanks.

It is not like that. They don't do anything
unless spoken to.

They are common for many Lisp projects as well,
tho right now I don't remember any names.
The thing is, at least what I've heard, sadly,
not enough people use it so the stuff in the
repos are always out of date or nobody does it.

So whenever there is a problem, and this I have
first hand experience of, upgrading it from
there won't help as that version has the same
problem as yours - because, that's where you
got it to begin with!

So those small gadgets installers-upgraders are
sort of the middle-solution between the repos -
which are ideal in a perfect world - and what
you can "self compiling".

Actually, I wouldn't mind

    M-x upgrade-emacs

and be prompted what version!

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 10:44:56AM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> t wrote:
> 
> > I for one *hate* those softwares which go
> > rampant on their own upgrade schedule and
> > very much prefer the distro doing this.
> > I trust[1] e.g. Debian much more than some
> > random app (esp. a web browser).
> > The alternative is Windows, or the bunch
> > o'apps on your smartphone (I haven't one).
> > Thanks, but no thanks.
> 
> It is not like that. They don't do anything
> unless spoken to.

Some. Some don't -- unless you first dive into
config and say "don't".

[...]

> Actually, I wouldn't mind
> 
>     M-x upgrade-emacs
> 
> and be prompted what version!

  tomas@trotzki:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep -v deinstall | wc -l
  724

I don't want "M-x upgrade-foo" on all of those (and this
is a pretty fresh box -- two days since install, with
no desktop environment. It'll grow over the next couple
of weeks).

Of those 724 apps, most of them are in the "let Debian do
what it does best" regime, and I want them to stay this
way.

I only keep track of ~10 applications I know personally.
I don't *want* the browser to be in this class, but it
keeps pushing itself into the foreground like a disgusting
spoiled kid. Just as an example.

An application requiring special attention should be the
user's choice. So an "auto-update" thingmajig should be
a possibility, and working well with the distro should
be the baseline. Applications which don't behave this
way only get into my box when I really have to. And I
end up hating them.

(Emacs, btw. is a stellar example. Don't care about latest
and greatest? Fine. Distro does a perfect job. Do care?
Also fine, go ahead.)

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Emanuel Berg]

t wrote:

> tomas@trotzki:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep
> -v deinstall | wc -l 724

    incal@stalin:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep -v deinstall | wc -l

    2100

... yes?

> (Emacs, btw. is a stellar example. Don't care
> about latest and greatest? Fine. Distro does
> a perfect job. Do care? Also fine, go ahead.)

Of course anyone can get the source for
whatever SW and compile it on their computers
if that is what you mean by "go ahead".

But why can't you get the "latest and greatest"
thru you distro or an interface equally simple
as the pack manager?

Well, sometimes you can, and this is what those
gadgets do! It is not a pesky icon somewhere on
a desktop that pops up every time you look at
it you should download some new version.
They are shell tools just like the apt- family
or what have you.

Sure no one ever did one for Emacs? I don't see
why it wouldn't be just an easy wrapper to do.

Another idea would be to set up a "bleeding
edge" repo and hook into that with the
/etc/apt/sources.list config.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 02:03:58PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> t wrote:
> 
> > tomas@trotzki:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep
> > -v deinstall | wc -l 724
> 
>     incal@stalin:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep -v deinstall | wc -l
> 
>     2100
> 
> ... yes?

Yes, ramping up, as I said :-)

> > (Emacs, btw. is a stellar example. Don't care
> > about latest and greatest? Fine. Distro does
> > a perfect job. Do care? Also fine, go ahead.)
> 
> Of course anyone can get the source for
> whatever SW and compile it on their computers
> if that is what you mean by "go ahead".
> 
> But why can't you get the "latest and greatest"
> thru you distro or an interface equally simple
> as the pack manager?

Because for ~98% of those packages I want "tried and
tested" and not "latest and greatest". The other 2%
I care specially for I put more admin work into (and
bear with ocassional breakage).

> Well, sometimes you can, and this is what those
> gadgets do! It is not a pesky icon somewhere on
> a desktop that pops up every time you look at
> it you should download some new version.
> They are shell tools just like the apt- family
> or what have you.
> 
> Sure no one ever did one for Emacs? I don't see
> why it wouldn't be just an easy wrapper to do.

It's still one gadget per app to take care of.
I don't feel like feeding thousands of gadgets,
even if they are shell scripts.

> Another idea would be to set up a "bleeding
> edge" repo and hook into that with the
> /etc/apt/sources.list config.

Try Debian unstable.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Emanuel Berg]

t wrote:

> Because for ~98% of those packages I want
> "tried and tested" and not "latest and
> greatest". The other 2% I care specially for
> I put more admin work into (and bear with
> ocassional breakage).
>
> [...]
> 
> It's still one gadget per app to take care
> of. I don't feel like feeding thousands of
> gadgets, even if they are shell scripts.

The issue with the "~2%" is that the repo's SW
is too old or sometimes unavailable.

Why can't this be available without doing it
100% manually? Well, it can, and that's what
those gadgets do! Why not for Emacs as well?
We have [M]ELPAs for additional software.
Why is it such a far-fetched idea upgrading
Emacs in a similar manner, if it can be done,
as I suspect it can?

If you for development or other reasons want to
get the source and compile it nobody is
stopping you!

The ideal situation is: the distro's pack
manager gets you whatever piece of SW you want,
in any state you want, at whatever version.
All thru the same interface.

OK, so this isn't the case. What's wrong with
bridging the gap by those specialized getters
and upgraders? Which are also shell tools with
a similar, tho not identical, interface.
But similar in terms of the UX.

You say you want the distro's pack manager for
98% and compile for 2%. Why not the distro for
94.5%, the gadgets for 4%, and compilation for
1.5%? Or any other distributions anyone
would want?

I fail to see how this is a principal question!
It is just a matter of convenience. Some people
aren't happy with what they find in the repos.
So the do their own managers because people
generally find that easier and less work than
getting the source and compiling manually.

Isn't that the reason for the pack managers to
begin with? If it is a good idea once, why not
twice or how many times people see the
need for?

The repos are good but not perfect or
universal. Specialized needs find specialized
solutions. Perhaps one day that will enter the
repos to a degree it won't be needed.
Who knows?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 03:25:18PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> t wrote:
> 
> > Because for ~98% of those packages I want
> > "tried and tested" and not "latest and
> > greatest". The other 2% I care specially for
> > I put more admin work into (and bear with
> > ocassional breakage).
> >
> > [...]
> > 
> > It's still one gadget per app to take care
> > of. I don't feel like feeding thousands of
> > gadgets, even if they are shell scripts.
> 
> The issue with the "~2%" is that the repo's SW
> is too old or sometimes unavailable.
> 
> Why can't this be available without doing it
> 100% manually? Well, it can, and that's what
> those gadgets do! Why not for Emacs as well?
> We have [M]ELPAs for additional software.
> Why is it such a far-fetched idea upgrading
> Emacs in a similar manner, if it can be done,
> as I suspect it can?

These gadgets exist. Perl's CPAN, Python's PIP,
Emacs's (M)ELPA, the list goes on.

Thing is, that they all need a "base" infrastructure,
provided by Perl, Python or Emacs, or whatever.

Note that Perl, R (and Python, I assume) do
run the C compiler in their gadgets (or whatever
else) if needed: so the split you are construing
(gadget vs compile from source) is a rather
artificial one: gadgets do orchestrate the
compilation from source since times immemorial.

Packagers are no idiots, believe me.

And as to bridging -- look at how many Perl
packages are maintained by a rather small team
at Debian. Why? Because they do leverage Perl's
package system (CPAN) to semi-automatically
derive Debian packaging. Again, packagers are
no idiots. Just hang around in the Debian perl
mailing list and you'll see.

What they do, and I appreciate that to the
utmost, is to make sure all versions of things
in there play well with each other (and with the
rest of the system). *This* is the hard problem,
not "compiling from source".

The "solutions" touted these days, packaging
each application into its own little world and
letting them talk to each other over http is,
in my eyes, pretty disgusting.

The only (to me) interesting innovation on
the horizon is perhaps the NixOS/Guix philosophy,
which makes it possible to have different versions
of things in parallel, depending on cross-dependencies.

Only time will tell whether this leads to
"software dust" where each little piece has
an own world, with its own libc version, etc.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[Emanuel Berg]

t wrote:

> These gadgets exist. Perl's CPAN, Python's
> PIP, Emacs's (M)ELPA, the list goes on.

...?!

> Packagers are no idiots, believe me.

?????

> The "solutions" touted these days, packaging
> each application into its own little world
> and letting them talk to each other over http
> is, in my eyes, pretty disgusting.

OK, so what protocol does apt/dpkg use?

And what's to say we cannot use that as well,
if suddenly now this is an issue of
the protocol?

Aaanyway, I'm bailing out of this discussion
because for several posts I can't follow your
thoughts. Maybe the people reading my posts
thinks they are incomprehensible as well, so no
disrespect...

3.1415-ce out!

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: prompt to create non existent directory.

[tomas]

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On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 04:06:23PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> t wrote:
> 
> > These gadgets exist. Perl's CPAN, Python's
> > PIP, Emacs's (M)ELPA, the list goes on.

> Aaanyway, I'm bailing out of this discussion
> because for several posts I can't follow your
> thoughts.

We ventured dangerously off-topic anyway. So thanks
for all people's patience :-)

Cheers
- -- t
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