m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Angelo Graziosi]

I have observed that on GNU/Linux Kubuntu 7.10 the result of

${src_dir}/configure --enable-font-backend

is

[...]
checking for libotf... no
checking for pkg-config... (cached) /usr/bin/pkg-config
checking for m17n-flt... no
[...]
Does Emacs use -lm17n-flt?                              no
Does Emacs use -lotf?                                   no


So I have installed (between 23401 packages):

libm17n-0, libm17n-dev
libotf0, libotf-dev
+dep.

which is the best I found.

But the result is the same: no, no...

Could it be caused by the fact that on Kubuntu I find libm17n and not 
libm17n-flt?

Are libm17n and libm17n-flt truly different? or is that only a different 
name convention?

And what for libotf? After installing the packages in /usr/lib I have 
libotf.so --> libotf.so.0.0.0!

(From configure.in it seems that the usage of m17n and otf is on by 
default, so that one should not use --with-...)

What am I missing?


Thanks,
    Angelo.

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Miles Bader]

Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:
> libm17n-0, libm17n-dev
> libotf0, libotf-dev
> +dep.
..
> But the result is the same: no, no...
...
> What am I missing?

I know the libotf-dev and libm17n-dev packages in debian are simply too
old (they don't have pkg-config files, among other things).

I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
(available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.

-Miles

-- 
Dawn, n. When men of reason go to bed.

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Jan Djärv]

Miles Bader skrev:
> Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:
>> libm17n-0, libm17n-dev
>> libotf0, libotf-dev
>> +dep.
> ..
>> But the result is the same: no, no...
> ...
>> What am I missing?
> 
> I know the libotf-dev and libm17n-dev packages in debian are simply too
> old (they don't have pkg-config files, among other things).
> 
> I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
> (available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.
> 

What functionality do they add?  AFAIK, AA-fonts work fine without them.

	Jan D.

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Kenichi Handa]

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In article <47C441DB.2000200@swipnet.se>, Jan Dj^[$(D+#^[(Brv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

> > I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
> > (available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.

> What functionality do they add?  AFAIK, AA-fonts work fine without them.

They are to provide so called CTL (Complex Text Layout)
facility for Indic scripts and etc. using OpenType fonts.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu]

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>>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:47:51 +0900, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> said:

>> > I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
>> > (available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.

>> What functionality do they add?  AFAIK, AA-fonts work fine without
>> them.

> They are to provide so called CTL (Complex Text Layout) facility for
> Indic scripts and etc. using OpenType fonts.

In the Mac Core Text font-backend driver I'm developing, these scripts
are laid out by the function `ctfont_shape' that is implemented using
the layout engine in Core Text framework instead of libm17n-flt.  But
I could not find any examples of the case that LGLYPH_ADJUSTMENT
becomes non-nil in etc/HELLO.  Could you possibly give some examples
where LGLYPH_ADJUSTMENT is essential so I can test such cases?

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

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Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Jan Djärv]

Kenichi Handa skrev:
> In article <47C441DB.2000200@swipnet.se>, Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
> 
>>> I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
>>> (available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.
> 
>> What functionality do they add?  AFAIK, AA-fonts work fine without them.
> 
> They are to provide so called CTL (Complex Text Layout)
> facility for Indic scripts and etc. using OpenType fonts.

Ok thanks.

Does it make sense to add something about this in the summary configure puts 
out at the end?  Like

   Complex Text Layout     yes/no
   OpenType fonts          yes/no

I could to that.  Is it a one to one mapping, i.e. libotf => OpenType fonts 
and m17n => CTL or are both required?

	Jan D.

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Jason Rumney]

Jan Djärv wrote:
> Does it make sense to add something about this in the summary 
> configure puts out at the end?  Like
>
>   Complex Text Layout     yes/no
>   OpenType fonts          yes/no
>
> I could to that.  Is it a one to one mapping, i.e. libotf => OpenType 
> fonts and m17n => CTL or are both required?

Does libotf enable the use of OpenType fonts, or does it just enable the 
use of advanced features available in them?

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Kenichi Handa]

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In article <47C525C7.5030709@gnu.org>, Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes:

> Jan Dj^[$(D+#^[(Brv wrote:
> > Does it make sense to add something about this in the summary 
> > configure puts out at the end?  Like
> >
> >   Complex Text Layout     yes/no
> >   OpenType fonts          yes/no
> >
> > I could to that.  Is it a one to one mapping, i.e. libotf => OpenType 
> > fonts and m17n => CTL or are both required?

> Does libotf enable the use of OpenType fonts, or does it just enable the 
> use of advanced features available in them?

The latter, even without m17n-lib and libotf, xft and ftx
font backends can use OpenType fonts just as TrueType fonts.

So, on GNU/Linux, if both m17n-lib and libotf are available,
   Complex Text Layout     yes
Otherwise
   Complex Text Layout     no

But, this message may be confusing.
> >   OpenType fonts          yes/no

Even the pre-unicode emacs can use OpenType fonts as X core
fonts because the recent X server supports TrueType fonts
(and most OpenType fonts are just TrueType fonts with some
additional tables).

So, perhaps the more correct message is:

   Local system font       yes/no
or
   Font Antialiasing       yes/no

On GNU/Linux, it's yes iff one of xft and ftx font backends
is available.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Angelo Graziosi]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:

> I added pkg-config files for libotf on my machine
> (Debian Sid), and that allows font-backends and
> devanagiri display to work.

May you explain how?

I am not very expert!

Thanks,
   Angelo.

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Kenichi Handa wrote:

>> Does libotf enable the use of OpenType fonts, or does it just
>> enable the use of advanced features available in them?

> The latter, even without m17n-lib and libotf, xft and ftx
> font backends can use OpenType fonts just as TrueType fonts.

Now libotf and m17n-lib have separate configure options.

Does libotf alone add any functionality, i.e. is it useful to specify
"--with-libotf --without-m17n-flt" as configure options?

Ulrich

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <18373.35269.814636.593215@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de>, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> writes:

>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Kenichi Handa wrote:
>>> Does libotf enable the use of OpenType fonts, or does it just
>>> enable the use of advanced features available in them?

> > The latter, even without m17n-lib and libotf, xft and ftx
> > font backends can use OpenType fonts just as TrueType fonts.

> Now libotf and m17n-lib have separate configure options.

> Does libotf alone add any functionality, i.e. is it useful to specify
> "--with-libotf --without-m17n-flt" as configure options?

No.  This is useless too: "--without-libotf"
"--with-m17n-flt".  Both of them are required for CTL.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Ulrich Mueller]

>>>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Kenichi Handa wrote:

>> Does libotf alone add any functionality, i.e. is it useful to
>> specify "--with-libotf --without-m17n-flt" as configure options?

> No.  This is useless too: "--without-libotf"
> "--with-m17n-flt".  Both of them are required for CTL.

Maybe the two options should be united then?

Ulrich

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Stefan Monnier]

> So, perhaps the more correct message is:

>    Local system font       yes/no
> or
>    Font Antialiasing       yes/no

> On GNU/Linux, it's yes iff one of xft and ftx font backends
> is available.

The summary configure outputs at the end is meant to describe the
details of the build, not the behavior of the resulting binary.
So I think the current message is better than talking about things like
anti-aliasing.


        Stefan

Re: m17n, otf0 and configuring on Kubuntu

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:20:53 +0900, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> said: 

> Angelo Graziosi <angelo.graziosi@alice.it> writes:
>> libm17n-0, libm17n-dev libotf0, libotf-dev +dep.
> ..
>> But the result is the same: no, no...
> ...
>> What am I missing?

> I know the libotf-dev and libm17n-dev packages in debian are simply
> too old (they don't have pkg-config files, among other things).

> I just built and installed the latest versions of those libraries
> (available from the m17n.org website), and everything worked.

        I added pkg-config files for libotf on my machine (Debian Sid),
 and that allows font-backends and devanagiri display to work. I'll try
 and remember to file a bug on the packages in Debian to ensure the next
 version has a pkg-config file when I get back home from this trip.

        manoj
-- 
I trust the first lion he meets will do his duty. J.P. Morgan on Teddy
Roosevelt's safari
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>  
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