From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; Feature request: Menu item "load init files" after -q/-Q Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87tzig16o6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87od8ng92x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87y77recuj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87prt2droq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fxtxeakj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207598251 10851 80.91.229.12 (7 Apr 2008 19:57:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Reiner Steib To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 07 21:58:03 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JixSp-0002Qy-SI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:57:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JixSC-0007G3-Kk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JixNd-0005VK-0s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JixNb-0005US-MU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JixNb-0005UI-Cd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:47 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JixNb-0006RD-98 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JixNa-0001e8-Nc for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JixNX-0006QF-88 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:46 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JixNS-0006P7-No; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:38 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjoFAAIY+kdMCpOw/2dsb2JhbACBXKk5 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,618,1199682000"; d="scan'208";a="18087690" Original-Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2008 15:51:37 -0400 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([76.10.147.176]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id NXG68336; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:51:36 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6BCDB80A9; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:51:36 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87fxtxeakj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Tue, 08 Apr 2008 04:20:28 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94618 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21929 Archived-At: >> >> But that's the issue: if sending mail works "reliably" from "emacs -Q" >> >> there's no need for "load .emacs". >> >> > That's your issue, which I agree is an issue, though I don't see how >> > you propose to address it via "load .emacs". >> >> You said: "it will normally be fixed by loading the init files". > Please, don't be argumentative. I'm just trying to explain why > communication broke down. Obviously, when I write "it", "it" refers > to my issue, not yours. The ambiguity is inherent, but I was unable > to see what you were talking about because I don't consider it an > Emacs issue to be solved in Emacs. Sorry, I did not intend to be argumentative. The thread is just a bit long and with many unrelated aspects mixed together. As far as I can tell the only interesting aspect of a "load .emacs" button is to setup the mail system so that M-x report-emacs-bug works. So it's the only part of the thread that I'm focusing on. >> >> sends it to someone who'll drop it as "spam", >> > PEBKAC, not solvable at our end AFAICS. >> Not PEBCAK at all. Most machines nowadays which have /usr/sbin/sendmail >> have it misconfigured > OK, so it's a PEBMAKAC: Problem Existing Between Mail Admin's Keyboard > And Chair. Still not something we can do anything about. Those broken machines have no such thing as a "Mail Admin". >> In many cases, the only reliable way for the user >> to send an email is via a webmail application. > In that case, what you really want is to simply disable bug reporting > by mail, and rewrite the whole system to directly inject the report > into debbugs via port 80. Yes, that's actually an attractive option (except that I don't think you can report bugs to Debbugs via port 80, but we could let emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com accept SMTP connections on a port that's open on pretty much all firewalls). > (Note that this essentially takes us back > to the days of UUCP, but I guess we don't have much choice.) Yes, it's a very sad affair. SMTP is dying. Stefan