CSP for Elisp?

CSP for Elisp?

[Tim Visher]

Is anyone aware of any efforts going on to bring [CSPs][] a la
[core.async][] or [go][] to elisp?

[CSPs]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicating_sequential_processes
[core.async]: http://clojure.com/blog/2013/06/28/clojure-core-async-channels.html
[go]: http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#concurrency

--

In Christ,

Timmy V.

http://blog.twonegatives.com/
http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail

Re: CSP for Elisp?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Is anyone aware of any efforts going on to bring [CSPs][] a la
> [core.async][] or [go][] to elisp?

We'd like to add concurrency to Elisp, but there is not much progress in
this area.  There is a `concurrency' branch with some work-in-progress
patches to provide ways to start a new thread, but it still needs a lot
of work.
Help would be very welcome (even more so than usual).


        Stefan

Re: CSP for Elisp?

[Tim Visher]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> Is anyone aware of any efforts going on to bring [CSPs][] a la
>> [core.async][] or [go][] to elisp?
>
> We'd like to add concurrency to Elisp, but there is not much progress in
> this area.  There is a `concurrency' branch with some work-in-progress
> patches to provide ways to start a new thread, but it still needs a lot
> of work.
> Help would be very welcome (even more so than usual).

Just to be sure that we're both talking about the same thing, I'm
referring to ['concurrency', not 'parallelism'][pike].

The cool thing about this (in terms of `core.async`) is that the
concurrency models hold up even in single-threaded environments. Hence
`core.async` working just fine under [ClojureScript][].

So I'm specifically talking about efforts in that direction. To be
honest, parallelism in terms of elisp is quite frightening as it has
uncontrolled mutation in the language.

So are we talking about the same thing?

[pike]: http://vimeo.com/49718712
[clojurescript]:
http://rigsomelight.com/2013/08/12/clojurescript-core-async-dots-game.html

--

In Christ,

Timmy V.

http://blog.twonegatives.com/
http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail

Re: CSP for Elisp?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Just to be sure that we're both talking about the same thing, I'm
> referring to ['concurrency', not 'parallelism'][pike].

Yes, definitely concurrency.

My understanding is that cooperative threading could be in Emacs-25, if
a few people put enough work into it.  There was a proof-of-concept
"working" a couple years ago (IIUC Gnus could run in its own thread).

For true concurrency in Elisp you might have to wait for Emacs-30.
Tho you might get true concurrency in Emacs sooner if we switch
to Guile.


        Stefan

Re: CSP for Elisp?

[Tim Visher]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> Just to be sure that we're both talking about the same thing, I'm
>> referring to ['concurrency', not 'parallelism'][pike].
>
> Yes, definitely concurrency.
>
> My understanding is that cooperative threading could be in Emacs-25, if
> a few people put enough work into it.  There was a proof-of-concept
> "working" a couple years ago (IIUC Gnus could run in its own thread).
>
> For true concurrency in Elisp you might have to wait for Emacs-30.
> Tho you might get true concurrency in Emacs sooner if we switch
> to Guile.

Awesome. I can't necessarily say that I'll be able to help at all but
I'll certainly check out that branch. Are there design docs or
discussions floating around anywhere?

--

In Christ,

Timmy V.

http://blog.twonegatives.com/
http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail

Re: CSP for Elisp?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Awesome. I can't necessarily say that I'll be able to help at all but
> I'll certainly check out that branch. Are there design docs or
> discussions floating around anywhere?

It's been discussed in emacs-devel, tho I can't find the threads
right now.


        Stefan