* focus-follows-mouse
@ 2008-05-05 18:09 Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 18:16 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sam Steingold @ 2008-05-05 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
GNU Emacs 23.0.60.4 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.8.20)
of 2008-05-05 on nyc-qws-005
'--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--prefix=/mnt/office/dev/opt'
I just noticed that I need to click the mouse to switch the focus
between emacs windows (as opposed to emacs frames/X windows which are
switched between based on the mouse movement).
Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
when this variable is set to non-nil.
--
Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux)
http://pmw.org.il http://iris.org.il http://dhimmi.com http://jihadwatch.org
http://truepeace.org http://openvotingconsortium.org http://ffii.org
Only the mediocre are always at their best.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 18:09 focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
@ 2008-05-05 18:16 ` David Kastrup
2008-05-05 18:35 ` focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 19:06 ` focus-follows-mouse Stefan Monnier
2008-05-05 23:11 ` focus-follows-mouse Miles Bader
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2008-05-05 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
"Sam Steingold" <ssteingold@janestcapital.com> writes:
> GNU Emacs 23.0.60.4 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.8.20)
> of 2008-05-05 on nyc-qws-005
> '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--prefix=/mnt/office/dev/opt'
>
> I just noticed that I need to click the mouse to switch the focus
> between emacs windows (as opposed to emacs frames/X windows which are
> switched between based on the mouse movement).
> Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
> clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
> better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
> when this variable is set to non-nil.
I disagree since that makes the desktop inconsistent. Even if Emacs
could reliably ignore the window manager for such functions.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 18:16 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
@ 2008-05-05 18:35 ` Sam Steingold
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sam Steingold @ 2008-05-05 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David Kastrup; +Cc: emacs-devel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
David Kastrup wrote:
| "Sam Steingold" <ssteingold@janestcapital.com> writes:
|
|> GNU Emacs 23.0.60.4 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.8.20)
|> of 2008-05-05 on nyc-qws-005
|> '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--prefix=/mnt/office/dev/opt'
|>
|> I just noticed that I need to click the mouse to switch the focus
|> between emacs windows (as opposed to emacs frames/X windows which are
|> switched between based on the mouse movement).
|> Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
|> clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
|> better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
|> when this variable is set to non-nil.
|
| I disagree since that makes the desktop inconsistent. Even if Emacs
| could reliably ignore the window manager for such functions.
|
I think you misunderstood me. My suggestion makes the desktop _more_
consistent.
What I am saying is:
I set focus-follows-mouse to t in emacs because I set my WM to "focus
follows mouse", i.e., when I switch between WM windows (emacs frames),
focus already follows the mouse.
what I _want_ is that when I move mouse between two emacs windows within
the same emacs frame (i.e., the same WM window, i.e., the WM does not
need to change anything), I want the focus to switch between the two
emacs windows as if by C-x o (or similar).
The behavior when focus-follows-mouse is nil should not change.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 18:09 focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 18:16 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
@ 2008-05-05 19:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-05-05 20:01 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
2008-05-05 20:56 ` focus-follows-mouse martin rudalics
2008-05-05 23:11 ` focus-follows-mouse Miles Bader
2 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2008-05-05 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
> I just noticed that I need to click the mouse to switch the focus
> between emacs windows (as opposed to emacs frames/X windows which are
> switched between based on the mouse movement).
> Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
> clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
> better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
> when this variable is set to non-nil.
You mean that mouse-autoselect-window should default to the value of
focus-follows-mouse?
This has been proposed and it might make sense, but I'm not sure it's
a good idea: just like focus-follows-mouse is problematic in MacOS
(because you may need to move the mouse over some other frame just in
order to access the menu-bar), mouse-autoselect-window is problematic
because you may need to move your mouse over another window in order to
reach the menu-bar.
Stefan "who uses mouse-autoselect-window"
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 19:06 ` focus-follows-mouse Stefan Monnier
@ 2008-05-05 20:01 ` David Kastrup
2008-05-05 20:56 ` focus-follows-mouse martin rudalics
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2008-05-05 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> I just noticed that I need to click the mouse to switch the focus
>> between emacs windows (as opposed to emacs frames/X windows which are
>> switched between based on the mouse movement).
>> Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
>> clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
>> better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
>> when this variable is set to non-nil.
>
> You mean that mouse-autoselect-window should default to the value of
> focus-follows-mouse?
>
> This has been proposed and it might make sense, but I'm not sure it's
> a good idea: just like focus-follows-mouse is problematic in MacOS
> (because you may need to move the mouse over some other frame just in
> order to access the menu-bar), mouse-autoselect-window is problematic
> because you may need to move your mouse over another window in order
> to reach the menu-bar.
Not just that. In my window manager, I prefer lazy focus, which means
that accidental movement of the mouse does not cause any change on
workspaces with a single Emacs frame and no other windows (where the
track pad feels touched sometimes, this is quite important).
mouse-autoselect-window would disturb me.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 19:06 ` focus-follows-mouse Stefan Monnier
2008-05-05 20:01 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
@ 2008-05-05 20:56 ` martin rudalics
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: martin rudalics @ 2008-05-05 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel
> ..., mouse-autoselect-window is problematic
> because you may need to move your mouse over another window in order to
> reach the menu-bar.
Simon and me spent quite some time resolving this in a reasonable way.
Do you have a test case where it doesn't work?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: focus-follows-mouse
2008-05-05 18:09 focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 18:16 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
2008-05-05 19:06 ` focus-follows-mouse Stefan Monnier
@ 2008-05-05 23:11 ` Miles Bader
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2008-05-05 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-devel
"Sam Steingold" <ssteingold@janestcapital.com> writes:
> Even though the documentation of focus-follows-mouse makes it abundantly
> clear that this is not the intent of the variable, I think it would be
> better if emacs switched the emacs window focus based on mouse movement
> when this variable is set to non-nil.
Please, no. There is a very strong historical distinction between frame
and window behavior, and users are used to it. This is core behavior,
and it can't just be changed based on a whim (and to my knowledge has
been essentially no demand for such a change).
[Morever, the behavior you want seems inconsistent with other apps --
pretty much everything that has a text entry "focus" requires a click or
command to change it, regardless of WM focus behavior (they typically
maintain a separate input focus per WM-window).]
-Miles
--
Opportunity, n. A favorable occasion for grasping a disappointment.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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2008-05-05 18:09 focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 18:16 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
2008-05-05 18:35 ` focus-follows-mouse Sam Steingold
2008-05-05 19:06 ` focus-follows-mouse Stefan Monnier
2008-05-05 20:01 ` focus-follows-mouse David Kastrup
2008-05-05 20:56 ` focus-follows-mouse martin rudalics
2008-05-05 23:11 ` focus-follows-mouse Miles Bader
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