From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: cl-generic misdesign (was: Poor quality documentation in edebug.el, and recursive documentation) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:54 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20200505202048.GA15482@ACM> <20200508195326.GB6705@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="12571"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Madhu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 16:06:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYVY1-00036m-3Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 16:06:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44120 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYVY0-0001Mj-1q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:06:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52790) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYVWl-00087f-SK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:42605) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYVWk-0008EG-DZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 54BA31009B1; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9DDE510099B; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:55 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1589292295; bh=MD10gZdsye9eFU5/5tft1mFwfMoAUlnYk4Pi0LtXtkg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=akoYxSyi5PTezJmyyQcKLcKjEA6tHagyRR7zcD4awYi2Bc7dkCmeIHGCwj9fLxtRv zz4ZFRM36KuTlUBxRhgLDClwlPGQZoCJWMumlvDMO6p7jNOVp9/dvZ02Mo1Q/NjAqw oYVbcCmOVEZNsflpemMze0zoS3NUXBkSVwDx2oiHA42XHzoq6mIHYN70G/sj3xEGLs lhvnUhgsEhhbv59XTvoD1lsG8S6wIZkainsf5LoKQHTO8uuKuo0hMFA7SExMpM/Kqo sbBeNnevlNlbBXr9zpTBvvcSjAaYOlEfPe1UGsF/jYUPSQX02uqNN5T8k9OEfaUWWN jzvnOgsdgJunA== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [216.154.3.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35DCA1203C7; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:04:55 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Madhu's message of "Tue, 12 May 2020 12:03:49 +0530") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/12 09:00:56 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249969 Archived-At: Hi Madhu, > Unfortunately we need to know because we have to deal with your > misdesign of those features and language constructs. Always looking forward to your kind words. > Redefinitions of cl-generics are not possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there are problems in this area, indeed, but "not possible" doesn't match my experience: ELISP> (cl-defgeneric sm-foo (a)) :autoload-end ELISP> (cl-defmethod sm-foo ((a (eql 1))) 2) sm-foo ELISP> (sm-foo 1) 2 (#o2, #x2, ?\C-b) ELISP> (cl-defmethod sm-foo ((a (eql 1))) 3) sm-foo ELISP> (sm-foo 1) 3 (#o3, #x3, ?\C-c) ELISP> > I have repeatedly come across code that uses these features you have > introduced, which get into debug situations where emacs cannot be > debugged but needs be killed. Sounds like a bug or a misfeature, indeed. > I have cases (related debbug) when edbug is essentially unusable and > worse it is so *by your design*. I don't know what you're referring to. Could you point to those debbugs? > There isnt any way to submit patches to your code. I don't think cl-generic.el is more magical than the rest of Emacs, so `M-x report-emacs-bug` should work to submit patches. At least I can't see how `M-x report-emacs-bug` could fail to submit a patch just because it's about cl-generic.el. Stefan