From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <20080714223059.GG3445@muc.de> <20080715013845.GX3675@rzlab.ucr.edu> <877ibl8vjs.fsf@red-bean.com> <87lk01ij7f.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> <87ljzvormp.fsf@red-bean.com> <87wsjdw5co.fsf@grepfind.mwolson.org> <877ibb89e6.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216930845 7316 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2008 20:20:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:20:45 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 22:21:34 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KM7JL-0002ze-C3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:21:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34585 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KM7IR-0007PZ-OX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KM7IM-0007NG-UY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KM7IK-0007JC-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36949 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KM7IK-0007J2-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:12 -0400 Original-Received: from pruche.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.22]:36113) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KM7IK-00057u-5R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:12 -0400 Original-Received: from alfajor.home (vpn-132-204-232-35.acd.umontreal.ca [132.204.232.35]) by pruche.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m6OKKZJ4015876; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:35 -0400 Original-Received: by alfajor.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BD3B81C523; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:20:10 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <877ibb89e6.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> (Manoj Srivastava's message of "Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:44:17 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV3067=0 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101418 Archived-At: >>>>> "Manoj" == Manoj Srivastava writes: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:49:59 -0400, Stefan Monnier > said: >> It strikes me that Debian's Emacsen seem to not be plain enough. I >> mean, Debian seems to change Emacs's startup.el even tho there's no >> need for it. Instead of changing startup.el to (load >> "debian-startup") and call some magic function in it, it'd be much >> better to leave Emacs's own startup code unchanged and simply provide >> a site-start.el that loads debian-startup as well as >> /etc/emacs/site-start.el and all the rest. > Well, site-start.el was deemed to be for site specific stuff, > and is shipped empty by the vendor (i.e., Debian). AFAICT, Debian's site-specific stuff is in /etc/debian/site-start.el, so they could use /usr/share/emacs//site-lisp/start-start.el for the Debian-specific changes. > The Studd in startup.el is only to cater to the vendor changes for > third party Elisp packages, and is not really a site specific > change. This means that the load-path is customized even > when --no-site-file is specified. I don't understand what you mean here. AFAICT, the Debian changes are executed iff the site-start.el file is loaded, so they could do it in the site-start.el file just as well. > Isn't there some issue with order of loading there? By modifying > startup.el, changes are made that allow setting load-path before _any_ > action is taken, namely, language setting, window system > initialization, and option processing. So the two things are not > equivalent. There could be. But as the patch you sent shows, it doesn't apply here: the debian-specific changes are placed right before loading site-start.el, so they could just as well be placed directly in site-start.el. Stefan