From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: eval-after-load not harmful after all Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7b501d5c0908091634ndfba631vd9db6502db301097@mail.gmail.com> <998B83F771474211A37D1E2B6A497B61@us.oracle.com> <878whr9o4c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <0AE832B5AEFE4453BB3E46F20DA29DE8@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1250003396 23705 80.91.229.12 (11 Aug 2009 15:09:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:09:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Daniel Colascione' , 'Carsten Dominik' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'CHENG Gao' , "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" , 'Leo' To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 11 17:09:48 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Masyx-00078N-TR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:09:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50052 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Masyw-0002C9-7J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:09:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Masxt-00018C-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Masxo-000129-Sr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44715 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Masxo-00011m-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:36 -0400 Original-Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:38435) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Masxn-0002V8-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:36 -0400 Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n7BF8WQA012769; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:32 -0400 Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id AF44D3A0B7; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <0AE832B5AEFE4453BB3E46F20DA29DE8@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:46:15 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV3337=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:114063 Archived-At: >> I note that all the advocates of e-a-l are package maintainers and UI >> types; all the deprecators are core. This is an inherent tension, and >> I think it should be resolved in favor of protecting the core. Actually, I think "tension" is the wrong word. The core just want to send a message, nothing more. The main message is "eval-after-load and advice should ideally not be necessary: we happily support them and won't be offended at all if you use them, but if you do need them, please understand that it is evidence of a shortcoming in some package that should be reported so we can fix it". > The discussion was about the Elisp manual, whose target audience is > not just maintainers of the Emacs core. The help and guidance there > are used by a variety of programmer-users. And that's why we want this message in the manual. Stefan