From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why are so many great packages not trying to get included in GNU Emacs? WAS: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:19 -0400 Message-ID: References: <86k126d83n.wl-me@enzu.ru> <83pnbyckvv.fsf@gnu.org> <4923d7e98f5ed816a7569093dbc673153adcea88.camel@yandex.ru> <874krex73o.fsf@gmail.com> <87eeqctgb4.fsf@elephly.net> <83wo43xom6.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1u9vnr3.fsf@gnu.org> <09632e8ec343ddee558b18f811ef6da77e594f55.camel@yandex.ru> <83pn9tvhta.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu4xvari.fsf@gnu.org> <1faa5c4154ea49a2d10d16741dfad8451ef27abd.camel@yandex.ru> <7980043db95fb5d74052e25f1ce3f5d3db1cae2d.camel@yandex.ru> <83k101uowj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="50663"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rekado@elephly.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, joaotavora@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 21 07:09:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jmsE7-000D5F-0p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 07:09:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52180 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jmsE6-0004U7-0y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:09:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jmsDT-00044D-Bq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:59654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jmsDP-0000wa-VY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:25 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6B8D11016A5; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id AD9D51006D2; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:20 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1592716100; bh=1eQLprmmOW6Hs7SWDsgCI1rP6p0b2LwqNzsi21UkcdY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=PurOtCbPRiALFQwjtgqfqWvIukHIrOdCpmcJlhsTY5Q7Nen0wqp5vHk8nJDo/t00P tc6PY1d9BZ6YJfuI7niRPXW7ZOsxmwtyQNDueLUDA/1jtgsr98Ca/a0bY2zHXjermA M9S0BO5ehuK7Un7ekuVErDE18jxNjo+GAlTOQo/HoyvN36ygXhQGt3XatAvwSSF0kL 3ADaQN243lpPgFQ6uVDjqgR1jOFdj/IKB/c9gorYjiZ0Dd93NWGtCR3LWR+VbSG5+t QSp5EolRHLd7YNBXE16PL0am+ouYH1tl7w9Xe8Q87aeDe396RqjZlfmxecI3PfEBBr d9nPdM5oDM14A== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [108.175.228.207]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55082120281; Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:08:20 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83k101uowj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 21 Jun 2020 05:35:24 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/21 01:08:22 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252479 Archived-At: I haven't followed this thread very closely, but it seems we've strayed far enough away from Emacs that it's become quite offtopic. I may be wrong (since I haven't followed the thread very closely) but my understanding is that Konstantin would like it for Emacs to accept submission using a "merge request" model or something like that. We've discussed this many times in the past. IIUC, we're slowly going there (see https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Fsf_2019_forge_evaluation), but we're an old project, and those people who most contribute to Emacs tend not to go very much for the shiny new stuff, so if you like the shiny new stuff I recommend you a healthy dose of patience. Stefan Eli Zaretskii [2020-06-21 05:35:24] wrote: >> From: Konstantin Kharlamov >> Cc: rekado@elephly.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, >> joaotavora@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru >> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 01:25:15 +0300 >> >> So, I recalculated by looking at date of the last commit of those "500" in GCC, >> and used that date on Clang. I made sure to sort out other corporate mails too. >> Command I used is: >> >> git log --since="Jun 8 21:34:46" --format="%ae" | grep -vP >> "@\S*(redhat|arm|suse|google|gnu|adacore|alibaba|intel|ibm|apple|linaro|huawei|c >> odesourcery|golang|sony|amd|chromium|nvidia|loongson|accesssoftek|ubisoft|micros >> oft|fb|energize|comstyle|nextsilicon|quicinc|azul|gentoo|graphcore|gdcproject|si >> five|imagelabs|xilinx|sap|sas|sigmatechnology|sonarsource|ericsson|lowrisc|hight >> ec-rt|polymagelabs)\.(org|com|de|cz|cn|ai|se)" | sort -u | wc -l >> >> So, now GCC still gets 15, while for Clang this number gets increased to 89. > > This metric is irrelevant. Basically, you removed everyone who was a > prominent developer, so it's little wonder that you are left with a > small number. Using such arbitrary criteria, one can "prove" anything > for any project. > > Once again, the long history and the active development of GCC over > those long years are a clear evidence that your criterion is > completely off the mark.