From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar deficiency Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: <466D8F06.6010906@gnu.org> <466DA866.4080907@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181596190 30036 80.91.229.12 (11 Jun 2007 21:09:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:09:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Sam Steingold Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 11 23:09:49 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hxr91-0000xV-1Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:09:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hxr90-0004k7-Gn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hxr8x-0004k2-Co for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hxr8v-0004jq-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hxr8u-0004jn-VK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hxr8t-0001bp-Lr; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:39 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3BB2CF274; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D1B3FE0; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id D95644C6D25; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:09:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <466DA866.4080907@gnu.org> (Sam Steingold's message of "Mon\, 11 Jun 2007 15\:54\:14 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72649 Archived-At: >> Some toolkits call it the "thumb". > thanks. what is a "slider" (is there such a word?) I believe "slider" is an alternative term for the same thing. >> I'm pretty sure it's intentional. It's not perfect, but the perfect >> behavior (which you get with the non-toolkit build) > does this mean that you agree that the first behavior is better? Yes, of course. >> tends to be difficult to get with current toolkits because toolkit >> writers are boneheaded > somehow gedit got it right - and it appears to be pretty minimalist by > design ("notepad" for gnome). That's the problem: the toolkit only cater to the simple case. To "do it right" in Emacs we'd be forced to *render* the whole buffer in order to compute its total pixel size so as to precisely set the thumb size. And then we'd still be stuck with the design constraint that you cannot bring point-max higher than the bottom of the window (a very common limitation in most other applications, often construed as a feature by GUI-zealots). Given that we cannot "do it right" without major performance problems (and usually this is only due to an over-eager test in the toolkit: fixing the toolkit in the case of Xaw3d amounts to removing 2-3 lines), we end up having to choose between various hacks and problems. Since the problem mostly affects operation when dragging the slider and this only when the slider gets near the bottom, another solution (which I tend to prefer) is to set the thumb size to something artificially small (e.g. 0) during dragging. This way the thumb size can still be correct at all other times. Stefan