From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general
Subject: Re: Mail mode vs message mode
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:52 -0500
Message-ID: <jwvaay6931a.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
References: <87639beb4n.fsf@stupidchicken.com>
	<876399p00j.fsf@stupidchicken.com>
	<87iqd8rh73.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
	<87r5rvvknw.fsf@stupidchicken.com>
	<87lji3od0l.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
	<87vdh6focv.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <b4meinu12jy.fsf@jpl.org>
	<87pr7aftaj.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <b4mhbski8kt.fsf@jpl.org>
	<871vjmcmgh.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
	<jwv7hteb44k.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
	<87iqcyb3l9.fsf@stupidchicken.com>
	<jwvr5rmvzvy.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
	<87my2aoyaz.fsf@catnip.gol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259416099 8414 80.91.229.12 (28 Nov 2009 13:48:19 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:48:19 +0000 (UTC)
Cc: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 28 14:48:11 2009
Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org>
Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org
Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165])
	by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
	id 1NENej-0003oZ-M6
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:48:09 +0100
Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54641 helo=lists.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1NENej-0006HO-AA
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:48:09 -0500
Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43)
	id 1NENea-0006Eo-P0
	for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:48:00 -0500
Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43)
	id 1NENeV-0006Bu-HO
	for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:59 -0500
Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59257 helo=monty-python.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NENeV-0006Br-B1
	for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:55 -0500
Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]:4049
	helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca)
	by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60)
	(envelope-from <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>)
	id 1NENeT-0005w7-HL; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:53 -0500
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArcEAN+4EEtFpYc//2dsb2JhbACBTdEUhDEEihk
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,305,1257138000"; d="scan'208";a="50235847"
Original-Received: from 69-165-135-63.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home)
	([69.165.135.63])
	by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 28 Nov 2009 08:47:52 -0500
Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848)
	id 4D62180E3; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:52 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <87my2aoyaz.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (Miles Bader's message of "Thu,
	26 Nov 2009 10:43:48 +0900")
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux)
X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not
	recognized.
X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
	<mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.gnu.org/pipermail/emacs-devel>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
	<mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org
Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org
Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117906 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:69229
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/117906>

>>>> (defcustom message-foo
>>>> (let ((def mail-foo))
>>>> (if (acceptable def) def fallback))
>>>> ...)
>>> That kind of defeats the purpose.
>> Why?

> Isn't the entire purpose of using a default value of `mail-foo' to pick
> up any user customizations of mail-foo in .emacs (otherwise it'd be easy
> enough to just use a literal "> " as a default for message-yank-prefix)?

> So if the user sets mail-yank-prefix to "   ", but your (acceptable ...)
> test rejects that because it looks wrong, then the purpose has (to some
> extent) been defeated...

Clearly, we'd want the `acceptable' test to only reject the few default
settings of previous Emacsen that are not acceptable and accept
anything else.  So we'd only ignore user's configurations if they have
their mail-foo var customized to one of those older default values.

For those, they'll have to set message-foo explicitly instead.


        Stefan