From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A new user perspective about "Changes for emacs 28" Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <1ca462fa-0f9e-3c18-6386-f43f49388b2f@gmail.com> <20200907180812.5tfylspp7i6vl4o3@Ergus> <94fda087-a61b-356d-4bb4-791907593246@yandex.ru> <24302cf8-5ac8-4abd-83ce-3e33c51a8beb@default> <83k0x4mjsv.fsf@gnu.org> <831rjcmgn8.fsf@gnu.org> <897b82c2-8ec2-60c0-f5c3-5ab98f79fbd8@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34224"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, nicola.manca85@gmail.com, ams@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , drew.adams@oracle.com To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 16:33:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGk7X-0008la-7u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 16:33:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41438 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGk7W-0000FG-9Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:33:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54630) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGk6e-0007KQ-Db for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:7377) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGk6R-0004cM-Qb; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:51 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5101C100240; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9499B10022C; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:28 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1599834748; bh=G7NrYcmDqgLIcPuDkHanTNst5jfY6e3SVB0iyj1aRYM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=H1BA+T+iNYU+xpqz5QH6hlMvfBhuWEuhjDT0nlF7Eko7GvE9+sINaEUF059I8PZf4 LNZv1ri9ozjhZ/RV6i8U21sCdTGXFVt4A89nd3yDBBJtQYXOFeHXt9CdZuPfGWdkRb 2f1ox+s/IN+NVDPd8lNQtUd0phuXB5OLvB25GpybJsJQxBbSPab2p8bCgRIcbxcqhs SUGspv/IgDWxReOeR7saC64Ep7I6qfWuoGnKi5CbF6ysXStGwBgmRtI4IduVuXAs9i Z2ItxIZVvKxoE6PDsxmJrSIvQQlpUFUCX/ChfMpHe6utZExuXHxw0fEYGIbni47o6l BLCX76R1MdJUg== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47B701206C2; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 10:32:28 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 11 Sep 2020 09:51:02 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 09:47:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255186 Archived-At: > But not those who prefer undo-tree (which gives you just as much power > as Emacs's undo, with even more control). BTW, I think using the `undo-equiv-table` we should be able to make our undo system more beginner-friendly, e.g. by providing undo and redo *and* telling the user when he's reaching a point in the undo history (tree) where there's a choice to be made between undo-only and redoing something that was undone earlier. Stefan