From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:31 -0400 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32195"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: "T.V Raman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 22:46:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNizX-0008Gt-7G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 22:46:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51980 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNizW-0002y2-64 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:46:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37542) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiyp-0002Um-E0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:10990) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiym-0006HS-QZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:38 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 60058100222; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8DBE1100071; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:33 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1601498733; bh=lRj7xCVnPd0TpxRUutbk1i+wf21RI1Yz5znr92gCfck=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=X8shbeDdKSH7t6LQ22cBT7tSbO3V107nZxqC4v2mknV94JT5w3sZY9kdVKT+E3E/G NENl+KuR1ntdx+SbOAS2e1cRw3Q8954mOPxKCHA0PJyjOcpXM4yVNT823nnfH8zpfQ pYP1joz96pV3J5Fg15OcDrmIu2DzYZPK1wHciQ6kIV57CKofw9ObLKEPYviMnTOfrP qkAEpuQLFeoTybsVGnzxeUDNTKx20LEn5AlL7ZUJGQhLLKJN1v6dqovQOtKks8lVx5 K/m9FK+699jxI4RExjuMjFyFko0OoErFk+y9pyKvEGnuWJqKE/BgzpinJPL9xZOIyl kqKywtJT01uMA== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52AC812021C; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:45:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> (T. V. Raman's message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:03 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/30 11:51:22 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256801 Archived-At: > that's an interesting perspective. Am surprized that you feel tty > users would find C-z z significantly harder than just C-z as the key > to suspend Emacs. I assume tty users have "C-z to suspend" hardwired in their fingers and would be quite surprised if any application decides to use another binding for it. Stefan > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > Since keybindings are a strong emotional issue, I was hoping to > > > divide and conquer the problem, i.e. first free up a new prefix key, > > > then experiment by putting a set of related commands on that key -- > > > rather than chasing our tails with arguments over which key to start= with. > >=20 > > I think `C-z` is fair game in GUI but freeing it up for other uses in = tty > > mode will be a very hard sell. This leaves it as "free for GUI-only > > bindings" which makes it much less useful than a true "free prefix key= map". > >=20 > >=20 > > Stefan > >=20 > >=20 > > > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > > > 1. C-z as a prefix --- at present c-z runs suspend-frame unde= r X, and > > > > > suspends Emacs on the console. > > > >=20 > > > > Then again, `C-z` is a standard binding for `undo`. ;-) > > > >=20 > > > > > Perhaps turn C-z into a new prefix key, and bind the above c= ommands > > > > > to C-z z -- that gives us a whole new keymap to play with fo= r the > > > > > future. > > > >=20 > > > > It's true that there's some logic to use C-z, C-x, and C-c for st= andard > > > > prefix keys. Yet, I think this can only make sense if we have a = clear > > > > idea of what kinds of bindings we'd put into this prefix. > > > >=20 > > > > > 2. F2 is currently taken up by 2c (2column support) and perh= aps it's > > > > > time to recover that key, I suspect 2c is not as heavily = used to > > > > > justify a common key like F2, and it would still have C-x= 6 > > > > > dedicated to it if we take F2 away from it. > > > >=20 > > > > I agree that the binding of `f2` to `2C-command` can be dropped. > > > > Not sure what to bind it to instead, OTOH. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Stefan > > > > > > --=20 > > > =E2=99=89Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =F0=9F=A6=AE=E2=99=89 > > --=20 > =E2=99=89Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =F0=9F=A6=AE=E2=99=89