From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#4562: 23.1; Customize State button problems Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:05 -0400 Message-ID: References: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier , 4562@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1254118071 2539 80.91.229.12 (28 Sep 2009 06:07:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:07:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 4562@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 28 08:07:44 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ms9Oh-0007ro-Vy for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:07:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43954 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ms9Oh-00037P-Gt for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ms9OF-00031n-Mg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ms9OA-00030x-B4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=50773 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ms9O9-00030k-Ut for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:34238) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ms9O9-0000kd-6K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:09 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8S676Pr024992; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:07:07 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n8S5o6xF021984; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:50:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:50:06 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:50:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4562 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 4562-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4562.125411647420832 (code B ref 4562); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:50:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 4562) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Sep 2009 05:41:14 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.183]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8S5fCqx020828 for <4562@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:41:13 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvIEAA7pv0pFxIo//2dsb2JhbACBUNEbhB4Fh30 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,464,1249272000"; d="scan'208";a="46686600" Original-Received: from 69-196-138-63.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.138.63]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2009 01:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id F0FA7B4228; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:05 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <75988BB2DE8C4DE6A16228719FF4E6EF@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:07 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:07:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:31558 Archived-At: > The State text says "CHANGED outside Customize; operating on it here > may be unreliable.", which is untrue. This is immediately after using > `emacs -Q'. You misunderstand: "CHANGED outside Customize" doesn't mean "You changed it", but instead it means "some Lisp code somewhere changed it without telling Customize". That Lisp code could be in your .emacs, but not necesarily. I hope this makes the rest of the behavior a bit more understable (tho probably not completely clear since it seems some part are indeed odd). So what you have here is simply a bug where Emacs's startup code modifies default-frame-alist without telling Customize about it. IIUC it's not easy to fix it, because some of those changes are things which shoujldn't be saved in the Custom version of default-frame-alist (they are dynamically set at startup depending on your window-system and/or command-line args). I guess basically what it means is that default-frame-alist shouldn't be a defcustom becaude we don't know how to let Custom handle it correctly. Stefan