From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16402: 24.3.50; Document nadvice.el stuff in Elisp manual before Emacs 24.4 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:50:01 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86r48glgbt.fsf@gmail.com> <4e0a82f8-0a1b-4325-ba66-dc5c61ae53b4@default> <52D06443.2020700@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389390678 2080 80.91.229.3 (10 Jan 2014 21:51:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:51:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Andy Moreton , 16402@debbugs.gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 10 22:51:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jz7-0006iN-JS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:51:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59240 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jz7-0000um-9Y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:51:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53531) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jyw-0000pV-7K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:51:17 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jyo-0001jk-SR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:51:10 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:59864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jyo-0001jc-Ol for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:51:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jyo-0007po-CW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:51:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16402.138939060630002 (code B ref 16402); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2014 21:50:06 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jxt-0007nq-DC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:49049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jxq-0007nf-Vd for 16402@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:50:03 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFxKG9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFFxKG9/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiB4GwS2RCgOIYZwZgV6DFQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="44686151" Original-Received: from 69-196-161-189.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.196.161.189]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 10 Jan 2014 16:50:01 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C452D6045A; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:50:01 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <52D06443.2020700@dancol.org> (Daniel Colascione's message of "Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:21:07 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:83255 Archived-At: > Agreed. nadvice sounds like a good implementation change. The advice > *interface*, however, isn't going away, so I'm hesitant to recommend the > nadvice interface as well. The problems that advice-add fixes as compared to defadvice are either problems in the interface, or internal problems which were not solved by retargetting defadvice on top of advice-add. IOW they're still in defadvice and are not likely to disappear any time soon. The advice-add interface is simpler, which is why I advocate it. > (Yes, we can tell users that advice is deprecated, but then a very > large amount of working elisp code users see is "deprecated". Yes, it'll take time for the code to move to advice-add. There's not much we can do about it. I don't think advice.el will really disappear, just like cl.el won't really disappear. Maybe at some point it'll move to GNU ELPA, tho. >>> - advice.el is much too large to be preloaded, >>> so for example debug.el refrained from using it. > So what if it's large? Isn't it *because* a commonly-used package is large > that we want to preload it? This way, we pay up-front for the cost of > loading that package instead of making users load it on each start. Could be. But the fact is that advice.el was not preloaded because it was perceived to be too big and not used enough to justify it. And in many cases the reason why it wasn't used is because it didn't seem worth the trouble loading this big package just to tweak this little function. Stefan