From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Installation, activation and setup of packages (e.g. Gnus) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:43:33 -0500 Message-ID: References: <878wclke6j.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87k4w5lbyb.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <87zl50jv52.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87d41rn3wt.fsf_-_@hagelb.org> <87k4vxiwlj.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aawsh7ou.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87y6kcfnij.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1262724743 11659 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2010 20:52:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:52:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 05 21:52:15 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NSGNy-0001cl-Mp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:52:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57231 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NSGNz-0001Vl-8q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:52:15 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSFJv-0000oj-9n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:43:59 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NSFJq-0000lg-BM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:43:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45314 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NSFJq-0000lL-12 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:43:54 -0500 Original-Received: from tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.93]:57946) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NSFJp-0000vD-Ip for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:43:53 -0500 Original-Received: from toip4.srvr.bell.ca ([209.226.175.87]) by tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20100105194337.MGSK28265.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:43:37 -0500 Original-Received: from bas1-montreal42-1178030923.dsl.bell.ca (HELO ceviche.home) ([70.55.83.75]) by toip4.srvr.bell.ca with ESMTP; 05 Jan 2010 15:04:16 -0500 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 99C2AB4077; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:43:33 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87y6kcfnij.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:51:48 -0600") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 8 (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:119465 Archived-At: > Well, this can be debated for a while. I don't think there's much to debate: when the admin installs a user package, it can't automatically configure it for all the users (especially not for the users that haven't yet been created). Sometimes, some part of the package depends on site data, so that part might be configured when the admin installs the package, but usually this is very limited (e.g. in the case of Gnus, the admin might set the DNS name of the local NNTP server [tho I'd sadly expect nowadays that for most admins there's simply no such local NNTP server to specify]). > I think users expect an installed package to work (Gnus doesn't do > much if just installed) and it's convenient to set it up when > installed instead of later. When I start `evolution', it doesn't "just work": it starts by running the wizard. How could my sysadmin know that I read my email from imap.iro.umontreal.ca rather than pop.teksavvy.com? > System packages these days are commonly set up like that, e.g. Postfix > on a Debian system asks several basic setup questions IIRC. The key word above is "System": Postfix is a *system* package, Gnus isn't. > 1) at least show a message when installing Gnus that the first-time > assistant can be run with commands X and Y. If the session is > interactive, ask the user if he wants to do it now. This requires some > package.el support. It might be a good idea to let the package management run a wizard when a user package is installed by a user (or when a system package is installed, tho there are very few Emacs system packages). > 2) make Gnus smarter about starting up without any configuration. The > assistant should run automatically in this case. Sounds fine. But that's a Gnus issue, unrelated to packaging. > GMail should have a specific setup path since it's so popular. I definitely do not want Emacs to encourage the use of GMail over any other service. Stefan