From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving kbd to subr.el Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:07 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <874k9juy0r.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtnbtimj.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnmd13ny.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfx10xs6.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7dfpjn3.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e94178d73e5f05@heytings.org> <87czo3pgs1.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e9412d60db82df@heytings.org> <87o87moopl.fsf@gnus.org> <19fca5d18b63e6eff5de@heytings.org> <87wnmaiida.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgr6gw9s.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1chhhkh.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35868"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan Kangas , Gregory Heytings , Emacs developers To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 19 14:35:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mcoLT-00093R-Qy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 14:35:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46924 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcoLS-0000nV-ML for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:35:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcoJp-0007dY-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:2718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcoJn-0007id-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 13CB21002CE; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 643AE100142; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:08 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1634646848; bh=bMTqtgToZ7z9XwuD++9QAlRb7gApw+BNJLQU0OKZbJA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=VI8eIulBg8KzqKFurbcyF8eFyzrPngvu8VTyCkoNxSqYsQMVbzj1YE2SEP1WKYAdn MyQLDdGnCAMObL5FEWWDRbuFmAMHdGkwv4D7DMY3L98Xn2gre8GdvG7vFSLnVDQXe6 3TFc26tQ2hbcwCUK9ZUzEHlv2ilelfp/zoRWBAP99bS95KiztY4yYzpo62UIriyn59 CxmPbPcwbtthCRKHEWtJHotyw4F5T8OCzD62+rAlc3jRxyrc2wA2mpwbGkIanL+l6V D6vm4xPclUihf4+JNdAo4bgagn3m/deoLljqG3o6gSPzzC6SOP97ninEyxaKaEWoVQ F+pIW6kmeVKSw== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.241.23]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F408D120071; Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:34:07 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87r1chhhkh.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 19 Oct 2021 04:30:38 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:277353 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-10-19 04:30:38] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >>> We could indeed, but I don't want to have different syntaxes in >>> different functions. It'd suck if you can't lift a key definition from >>> `define-keymap' and use it in `local-set-key'. >> Then I suggest not to support strings at all in `define-keymap`. > The same argument is as valid in the opposite direction. I.e., if you > see a key binding used in `local-set-key', you should be able to use it > in `define-keymap'. I don't think this holds. It's normal for higher-level APIs to rely on higher-level representations. >> The old string syntax for keys just sucks and we should work towards >> its reduction, even if it will stay with us for the foreseeable future. > I totally agree that the old string syntax for keys sucks, but there is > no realistic way to phase it out. In the short term, no, but if you look at the 10-20 year horizon it seems quite doable. Whether we do manage to completely remove it or not doesn't matter very much for the benefit of Emacs users we should make it so the user and coder will never need to know about it, and for that we should actively discourage its use, starting by not supporting it where it doesn't have to be supported. Stefan