From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59707: 29.0.50; Seeking a more robust `package-quickstart' Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87edtlpact.fsf@rfc20.org> <87cz95rnhf.fsf@rfc20.org> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5021"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 59707@debbugs.gnu.org To: Matt Armstrong Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 30 14:12:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Msu-00015W-Cx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:12:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Msh-0006sO-EN; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:12:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Msd-0006rj-PV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:12:04 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Msc-0003F9-0m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:12:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0Msb-00051a-Ml for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:12:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 13:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59707 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 59707-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59707.166981390019307 (code B ref 59707); Wed, 30 Nov 2022 13:12:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59707) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Nov 2022 13:11:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60902 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0MsF-00051L-Q3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:15131) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p0MsE-00051F-D8 for 59707@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:39 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 562DD100184; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:32 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7FBDC10013B; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:30 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1669813890; bh=iACsGawARYcfhKi4NrmMX4usOiKppdON0m5rq9WFMBg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=oLZ62YRnBs76K6lUFSs9NBRsKp4ndhxq89v1vTg/7nad86iy8t7f8JPdbvsRXmUKH YGBxwiQWb2HllJ3h6i+HxjcGY0vSfS+NQs2HUW7MyQZWNuERaEMmClw0bgK2GCUAif k9afoQ8tguqALBLj5c4Rd7ntps/6aypglfXS45lcxaVsbqYVxfP93ZdB48/yvM7TLM 1r17cCffTDyzHFfCSyVF6wr0CRuHXb6RC+0QHCoIsyyZmiD6zQHutZ/Y+GOS5irX4L ahlU4MJtA0evyTWxFxMzrj0DynxzKdJcGBy0m4cwJwACDUoKz5DWuVX5tM446QkWZt 2zZJXQsZqZ97g== Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [104.247.241.157]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B87C12031F; Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:11:30 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87cz95rnhf.fsf@rfc20.org> (Matt Armstrong's message of "Tue, 29 Nov 2022 21:59:56 -0800") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:249491 Archived-At: > I'd rather suggest that the gesier package autoloads simply not use the > helper function at all. Instead, just have the autoloads defvar > `geiser-active-implementations' and call `add-to-list' on it explicitly. > Seems simpler and unsurprising. But that exposes the implementation of `geiser-activate-implementation`. Copying the whole function definition to the autoloads file is "cleaner" in this sense. >> In the case of `--debug-init` it could at least print the backtrace on >> `stderr`. Or store the backtrace and display it later (even though the >> debugger wouldn't be active, it would still be nicer to manipulate than >> when sent to stderr). > > Yes, though see the backtrace above. It isn't very helpful, at least > for me, since the bottom of the lisp stack is the current > `command-error-function'. The GDB backtrace you got it from a time after the actual Lisp error was caught, so you didn't get the relevant Lisp backtrace. If you put a breakpoint on something like `Fsignal` you'd get something closer. This said, it's still the case that the backtrace wouldn't show very much info because the autoloads file is very "flat". > Ah, ok. It looks like geiser's autoloads are hand written (and might > predate package.el), so an actual autoload for the defsubst ends up in > package-quickstart.el. See > https://gitlab.com/emacs-geiser/geiser/-/blob/master/elisp/geiser.el#L104 Ah! :-( > Yet, geiser wants to support use directly from downloaded source. What > is our current suggestion for packages that want to ship their own > pre-canned autoloads? Don't do that. Help us improve `package-vc` instead :-) > Do you know of a package supporting this without resorting to hand > edited autoloads? Most largish packages do, sadly. > I assume there is some canonical 'emacs -f batch_blah_blah' but, > maybe not? Kind of, but it's not very widely advertized (nor defined well enough to be convenient to use) so it's a bit cumbersome and the actual incantation used varies. E.g. Hyperbole uses things like: $(EMACS_BATCH) --debug --eval "(progn (setq generated-autoload-file (expand-file-name \"kotl/kotl-autoloads.el\") backup-inhibited t) (let (find-file-hooks) (hload-path--make-directory-autoloads \"kotl/\" generated-autoload-file)))" Stefan