From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp primitives and their calling of the change hooks Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:26:43 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20180103124543.GA5435@ACM> <20180104155111.GB6846@ACM> <20180104211154.GC6846@ACM> <838tdcbxrb.fsf@gnu.org> <83lghc9j62.fsf@gnu.org> <83fu7j9x2w.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515252299 30374 195.159.176.226 (6 Jan 2018 15:24:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 15:24:59 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 06 16:24:55 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eXqL8-0007X8-30 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 16:24:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39342 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXqN7-0005Po-C4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:26:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38121) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXqN0-0005PP-R4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:26:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXqMy-0000gZ-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:26:50 -0500 Original-Received: from pmta31.teksavvy.com ([76.10.157.38]:53329) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXqMu-0000ef-4N; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:26:44 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HEOgDJ6VBa/yyKSC1bHgEGDIM/gVqJS?= =?us-ascii?q?YR6jnSCApk/hUUChDJDFAEBAQEBAQEBAQNoKIUlAQQBeQULCw0nEhQYMYo8CLF?= =?us-ascii?q?QIQKKEQEBAQcCJoQgghWDP4MuixoFkzmQJaFMKIdTmFM2I4FQMhoIMIJohHQji?= =?us-ascii?q?k0BAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HEOgDJ6VBa/yyKSC1bHgEGDIM/gVqJSYR6jnSCApk/hUU?= =?us-ascii?q?ChDJDFAEBAQEBAQEBAQNoKIUlAQQBeQULCw0nEhQYMYo8CLFQIQKKEQEBAQcCJ?= =?us-ascii?q?oQgghWDP4MuixoFkzmQJaFMKIdTmFM2I4FQMhoIMIJohHQjik0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,322,1511845200"; d="scan'208";a="16923339" Original-Received: from unknown (HELO pastel.home) ([45.72.138.44]) by smtp.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 06 Jan 2018 10:26:43 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 42AAD61839; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 10:26:43 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83fu7j9x2w.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Jan 2018 11:05:11 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 76.10.157.38 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221644 Archived-At: > Can you describe a practical situation where an Elisp coder could use > the new text to some practical benefit, i.e. to change her > implementation to be better/more resilient (as opposed to just > enhancing her understanding of this stuff)? I guess I don't see how > such practical benefits would be possible with the new text. In CC-mode, Alan wants to store information about the state of the buffer before a change and then use this info after the change (IIUC this is mostly to try and avoid recomputing parsing info about the rest of the buffer). With the current description, all he can say is "in practice my hack works 99% of the time, and the doc says that I basically can't bring it to 100%". With the new description, it should be possible for him to bring it to 100% (as you know I think he'd be better off using an approach like that of syntax-ppss, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it possible to do it reliably his way). Stefan