From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:52:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87o8ls1vvq.fsf@posteo.net> <20200926145302.sjrwjrguf5ialc25@Ergus> <3201a9fe-de19-d553-0be1-d379f182fd47@yandex.ru> <84273aa2-24a9-7584-18b9-03a5ac783d62@yandex.ru> <835z7vjrg3.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuvegkmo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11298"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: philipk@posteo.net, rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, jamtlu@gmail.com, eduardoochs@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 01 17:11:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kO0FA-0002oh-Em for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 17:11:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41236 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kO0F9-0001fC-GP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:11:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44582) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNzwf-00025e-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:52:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:62140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNzwa-0003bk-6H; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 10:52:32 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0A9CD1002CF; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 10:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 52B1B100071; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 10:52:24 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1601563944; bh=rR5nE7ufIT+HIMjSShelYw4pTZx9k2BbDGuK4zXga14=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=hZdPbZ/XwoJpdCxuz1ocVCcpzw3c6Xu59ywTDta1ZXDDYmzbhBWBOnDVmUQqCUvEf rL9rPmmGAshW5o3THXN4X87JQW6VOorss0HXNUx3/YOep3eue4Svd0smjbGjO3K/HK /HADLTiTcHdw3XBOpn9wklYeGkkSuT6btGBjZsaiJdTc/53Yh5zBbxlJrrZfYLMkXd YmjpgT9dcfebeb0Pz3UNsbI4AkTlkJd0MUPlMHVgSdkik99mT+leEtEgRiCyS+ZApq 8Q6pNIDMk6zcKsBSjfQPoEi6/uxu4fguIJAe5zWQvUJ85TmVEjwm/eFmSWxVM6YaDa 5vqlE7KQDisfw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0A0F120689; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 10:52:23 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83tuvegkmo.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2020 16:07:27 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/01 09:10:03 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256857 Archived-At: > I understand the general issue with using services, but in this case > the server just sends the description of a word taken from a > dictionary. Aren't we a tad too radical, perhaps even extreme, in > this case? FWIW, I tend to agree: the main reason for using a server is to avoid having to *store* a local copy of all the dictionaries you might want to use. So I see it more like a remote storage than a remote service. I do value highly having offline access to such info, which is why I have local copies of some dictionaries, but I think this is more a practical matter than an ethical one. This said, it is a slippery slope and given the general current context where we move every time more in the direction of relying on external servers that are not under the control of the user, I do think we should be careful not to encourage the use of such remote servers. > It's not like the server calculates something that could > be subverted by a server we don't control. OTOH, there can be definite value in collecting the set of queries a particular user performs. > And how is it different from the command we have that queries an > Internet search engine (M-s M-w)? Indeed, the difference is fairly small (tho there's a clear practical difference in that it's unrealistic to run your own search engine). > Or from asking an SMTP server to send an email message? That is quite different, since the whole purpose is to send a message elsewhere, so there's just no way you could do it locally. Stefan