From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:14:27 -0500 Message-ID: References: <9ab5d2bd-a648-cae0-a4a7-ae86be10af0f@gutov.dev> <87r0kuqxbf.fsf@gmail.com> <54e115a2-fc36-3056-a030-0dbf32416ddb@gutov.dev> <43f290b0-4119-597b-c89a-0fb4c7db1665@gutov.dev> <1e7fe1ef-af7d-3222-7b9e-b569b3c97ccf@gutov.dev> <22e4cb4d-a8f3-1530-881d-b8c59c5d969b@gutov.dev> <339b58d6-5a44-8393-c2cd-4c935147dde3@gutov.dev> <877cmhrcsf.fsf@gmail.com> <56accb10-2a3c-7670-1687-4ae1d7e374e8@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8515"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , =?windows-1252?B?Sm/jbyBU4XZvcmE=?= , Eli Zaretskii , michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gerd =?windows-1252?Q?M=F6llmann?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 17 17:18:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r41Xe-0001zO-2O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 17:18:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r41Wk-00069A-IK; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:17:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r41Wi-00068J-Kt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:17:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r41Wg-0003ss-MP; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:17:04 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4E2D04442D5; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:17:00 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1700237819; bh=6C0benDkpkovpYre/FkhAwePfgJsScu6e1jl+1J+gu0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Ci/efop0ttXD7GD/r6ZchrsqmFYXvxWWxItSXYOTSbys5XIcBKMsTnAGY6/8KIYe9 JIxuDsiGZ3cXYZyDni4f2cNUPhegwScLdiJAMJA8Eo2EDX1ZBVBZfBQNMuDNBfb4a1 O+jIwwwTRJsLvaTlJByGzujvmjVlsVQgehtrBi3GXg/wYZxyUKYPM4Bsz2QKAaHHSy Q/TlnVm2eXLEyR/f0twwZxl2hT3TkwaZt2v/aP2y9xS1w4VpcBqKb67d2IWfLUFmjP HY1c/QDZhy4zgvcPS55RDR0AxXvgg6NYlTPuXB5DlAPJFVsWyCBUq4mjQEcgzXHJeT 46nEIUXvIWadQ== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 67E954427D8; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:16:59 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51A0512044D; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:16:59 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?windows-1252?Q?M=F6ll?= =?windows-1252?Q?mann=22's?= message of "Fri, 17 Nov 2023 07:08:19 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312875 Archived-At: > Anyway - as I already mentioned I have absolutely no intuition about the > performance characteristics of cl-generic's dispatch mechanism. I don't have a good understanding of it either. I did investigate a performance issue in `cl-print.el` where it seemed clear that a significant part of the overhead comes from memory allocations (and associated GC load) coming from `&rest`. For this reason, I've been toying (in my mind only, so far) with how we could have something like `&rest` but which doesn't allocate memory from the heap for the specific sub-case of (lambda (.. &rest args) ... (apply ... args) ...) -- Stefan