From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [elpa] externals/transient 667ce2b287 18/23: Use transient-default-value in transient-init-value(suffix) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:50 -0500 Message-ID: References: <173487507772.3820862.14263838078882905942@vcs3.savannah.gnu.org> <20241222134440.C5563C5C27C@vcs3.savannah.gnu.org> <87wmfmikc0.fsf@bernoul.li> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21296"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jonas Bernoulli Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 27 19:07:49 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tREkX-0005Pl-24 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 19:07:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tREji-0005sh-E6; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tREjg-0005q4-9G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tREje-0002Li-A5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:56 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3B23C1000BD; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:52 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1735322811; bh=4itan7GX4FarkuOs0dMMka/6F0Bdcg+NQUBik086VQY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=a93S4kn89Hzie4OUKJGQXlbvP0KWewFD79RoI0eZdckXucoCSCHj09nfnGnrsrBgk WlWf7Lx/2e+Y15daKEwZzTf2A/xfTUUF4Bd99BNbkTL5ok3kEIn3R3xV83YrnaFYEW l/QIQLJap0j0RnwT1widA5VpOzplqONRfgKHh1WoTFoBCCFsF0yeO+LMpZkQH+3nKc pfdOnX9KzrUjUVZ7TNPk7sWqbC4rEXFQDizvmgygYFsamAj84EinqyKbksEJIsBblB +A9V0vdLw+aeiFd5iCnKVDyHKS2Ii5n3DITz+TI96u7zvvgA0ZNR7r2+nzf7M0TrLm B3UmQWMkXbyrg== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 60591100043; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:51 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from asado (unknown [23.233.149.155]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FADC12029A; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:06:51 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87wmfmikc0.fsf@bernoul.li> (Jonas Bernoulli's message of "Thu, 26 Dec 2024 15:34:55 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327219 Archived-At: > The reason I am using Eieio's "this is not bound", is that I am doing an > Eieio thing here. It's not a "not bound" slot but the "not bound" > return value of a generic function, which isn't the same thing, but > pretty damn close. =F0=9F=99=82 > Sure I can invent a new symbol just for this one case, but it would be > (IMO unnecessary) noise and the only reasons I would be doing it is to > make you happy and to avoid having a conversation about it. Sorry about this conversation. I'm not bothered by your use of `eieio--unbound`, to be honest, I was just curious. [ If I were you, I think I'd just use something like `:unbound` or `:transient--unbound` because it's literally less code than what you currently have and it would save me from having to worry about the annoying guy breaking compatibility again. ] >> IOW, is there a good reason to break the abstraction here? > I am not sure what "the abstraction" and "here" refer to exactly. One of the abstractions is just that the `eieio--` prefix implies it's an internal entity to EIEIO so shouldn't be used from outside of EIEIO's own code. The other is that `eieio--unbound` is a value that ideally noone should ever see, just like `Qunbound` in Emacs's C code. Every time you use it you increase the risk that someone ends up storing it inside an EIEIO object. [ Now that I think about it... I'm no fan of EIEIO objects, especially that notion of a slot being unbound, so maybe I should encourage use of `eieio--unbound` so as to maximize the chance of mayhem. =F0=9F=99=82= ] Stefan