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* gtk scroll bar deficiency
@ 2007-06-11 18:05 Sam Steingold
  2007-06-11 19:25 ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 34+ messages in thread
From: Sam Steingold @ 2007-06-11 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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I just built emacs with gtk for the first time and I was struck by the
change in the scroll bar behavior (specifically, the location of the
sliding "scroll thing" - what is its official name anyway?).

before: when the whole buffer is visible, the scroll thing in the bar
occupies the whole scroll bar (clearly indicating that everything is
visible); when the bottom of the buffer is visible, the scroll thing is
at the bottom of the scroll bar. this is also the behavior of gedit,
firefox, openoffice, gnumeric et al, and I like it.

now: when the whole buffer is visible (more generally, when the bottom
is visible), the scroll thing does not reach the bottom of the scroll
bar - you can scroll down and, as the bottom of the buffer scrolls up,
the scroll thing reaches the bottom of scroll bar (while decreasing in
its size). this is the behavior of vim, and I hate it.

is this change intentional?
it looks like a bug to me...

Sam.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Re: gtk scroll bar deficiency
@ 2007-06-14  8:52 grischka
  2007-06-14  9:20 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
  2007-06-14  9:24 ` Miles Bader
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: grischka @ 2007-06-14  8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

> > is this change intentional?
> > it looks like a bug to me...

> I'm pretty sure it's intentional. It's not perfect, but the perfect 
> behavior (which you get with the non-toolkit build) tends to be difficult 
> to get with current toolkits because toolkit writers are boneheaded: they 
> prevent applications from doing some very useful things in order to force 
> them into a predefined mould which of course doesn't fit all.

Cheap propaganda. The truth is that current emacs' idea of scrolling 
is just too simple minded than that it could drive a standard scrollbar 
correctly. 

> PS: Basically, they want to enforce limitations of the physical metaphor,
> rather than let people benefit from the fact that it's only a metaphor and
> thus doesn't need to suffer from the same limits. 

Only that the limitations which you complain are part of the means by 
which the metaphor is created in the first place. It's like with a game 
and its rules. The game doesn't "suffer" from the rules, the game is 
the rules. 

> Soon they'll ask for mouses with feedback so the user has to make 
> a physical effort proportional to the size of the text/window when 
> sliding the thumb. Next thing you know, the scrollbars will wear out 
> and will need regular maintenance so they don't get wedged.

Uh, do I live in future? Emacs' bars _were_ wedged last I tried :)

-- grischka

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-06-18 13:32 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-06-11 18:05 gtk scroll bar deficiency Sam Steingold
2007-06-11 19:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-11 19:54   ` Sam Steingold
2007-06-11 21:09     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-12  5:52     ` Jan Djärv
2007-06-12  5:57       ` Ralf Angeli
2007-06-12  6:06         ` Jan Djärv
2007-06-12  6:12           ` Ralf Angeli
2007-06-12  7:40             ` Jan Djärv
2007-06-15 20:51               ` Ralf Angeli
2007-06-12 11:09         ` David Reitter
2007-06-12  8:49       ` Andreas Schwab
2007-06-12  9:10         ` Jan Djärv
2007-06-12 13:04       ` Sam Steingold
2007-06-12 13:11         ` David Kastrup
2007-06-12 13:19           ` Sam Steingold
2007-06-12 15:13         ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-12 22:38     ` Davis Herring
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-06-14  8:52 grischka
2007-06-14  9:20 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-06-14 11:56   ` grischka
2007-06-14 17:21   ` grischka
2007-06-14 18:22     ` David Reitter
2007-06-14 20:30       ` Jason Rumney
2007-06-15 11:41       ` grischka
2007-06-15 14:48         ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-18 13:32           ` grischka
2007-06-14 19:05     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-15 11:46       ` grischka
2007-06-15 14:56         ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-15 15:56           ` Sam Steingold
2007-06-15 18:35             ` Stefan Monnier
2007-06-15 18:58               ` Sam Steingold
2007-06-14  9:24 ` Miles Bader

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