From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <23521879.post@talk.nabble.com> <7b501d5c0905131659r1d79ec56s5a59f76e4713edf9@mail.gmail.com> <23532135.post@talk.nabble.com> <87tz3odq3l.fsf@iki.fi> <23538683.post@talk.nabble.com> <87eiuru24b.fsf@iki.fi> <39370.130.55.118.19.1242397867.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> <54A5E41E3FD446F590AA580D90C5B518@us.oracle.com> <56DF3F5FED9445EAB0C666DE0904BAC2@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243286097 6844 80.91.229.12 (25 May 2009 21:14:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:14:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 23:14:50 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8hVQ-0000AI-Mq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 23:14:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40870 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8hVP-0005x1-LJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8hVK-0005wl-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8hVD-0005tv-UQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34005 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8hVD-0005tj-Qb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:35 -0400 Original-Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:56403) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8hVD-0005wE-2S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:35 -0400 Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n4PLEXQS027858; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:33 -0400 Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1F9A53A07A; Mon, 25 May 2009 17:14:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <56DF3F5FED9445EAB0C666DE0904BAC2@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 25 May 2009 10:51:23 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV3282=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111090 Archived-At: >> 1 - it's far from clear which modes should use which default. > Whoa! If that's far from clear, then it's even farther from clear that _all_ > modes should always have non-nil as the default. Talk about sophistry! I don't see why the two should be correlated, so I don't se the sophistry. AFAIK the choice bsically depends on the user's taste, similarly to the blinking cursor. Please give examples of modes where the choice is clear one way or the other (sufficiently so that it should override the user's default choice). We can then consider them. I still haven't seen any argument for any particular mode, so I think it is fair to say that it is unclear which modes should use which default. I've seen mention that text-mode should use a value of t, but haven't understood why that would be a better choice there than elsewhere. >> 2 - there is very little evidence that someone might want different >> behavior in different buffers. > Evidence: I'm someone who might want different behavior in different buffers. Which behavior where? > There is even less evidence that _everyone_ wants non-nil in _all_ buffers. Maybe if you explain the specific harm you see, we can start reasoning about where/when to use what. In my use, the new default saves me the trouble of having to worry about long wrapped lines, and that holds in all buffers. > This is about choosing reasonable _default_ behavior. Thank you for repeating the obvious. I think we are all painfully aware of this by now. >> 3 - Drew would come back screaming if (setq line-move-visual nil) only >> fixes that new brain-dead behavior in some modes but not all. > It's irrelevant whether Drew comes back screaming. Forget the ad > hominem appeals to the gallery and get back to reasoned argument. This was an attempt at humor rather than an ad-hominem. I'm sorry if you felt attacked/ridiculed/dimished, there was no such intention. The inflamed tone of this thread is one of the reasons why I think more than ever that this setting is only a question of personal taste. Stefan