From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11782: 24.1; closure is not self-quoting Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:17 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87d34nxm97@ch.ristopher.com> <878vee364e@ch.ristopher.com> <87621j3wv5@ch.ristopher.com> <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1369787210 6940 80.91.229.3 (29 May 2013 00:26:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 00:26:50 +0000 (UTC) To: 11782@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 29 02:26:49 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUE3-0001CV-Mz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 02:26:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47226 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUE2-0005zA-NJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:26:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUDy-0005yt-H4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:26:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUDx-0005dS-9J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:26:42 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:49969) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUDx-0005dN-6C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:26:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUFF-0004oT-Ih for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:28:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 00:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11782 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.136978722818401 (code B ref -1); Wed, 29 May 2013 00:28:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 May 2013 00:27:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38325 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUEN-0004mk-Q8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:27:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46563) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUEK-0004mB-Su for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:27:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCs-0005WB-IX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:39 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:56795) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCs-0005W7-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCn-0005sa-8n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCh-0005UW-0p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:29 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.182]:65204) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhUCg-0005US-SV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:22 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCpOt/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBVjMLNBIUGA2IQgaxH5AOjWGDKQOkeoFegxM X-IPAS-Result: Av8EABK/CFFMCpOt/2dsb2JhbABEuzWDWRdzgh4BAQQBVjMLNBIUGA2IQgaxH5AOjWGDKQOkeoFegxM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="14991155" Original-Received: from 76-10-147-173.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.147.173]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 28 May 2013 20:25:15 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id DC93467DA9; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:17 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87obburavs@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Tue, 28 May 2013 23:35:08 +0100 (BST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:74629 Archived-At: >> Could you expand on why you think it's severe? > I think this issue is severe because the behaviour is odd and follows > neither other mature Lispy languages nor the reference manual. I see. So we just disagree on what is considered severe (I expected something like "this and that common idiom found in those packages fails"). In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression--it evaluates to itself. Clearly this doc needs to be fixed since it confuses lambda expressions and lambda values and while this conflation mostly worked in dynamic binding, it does not work any more in the presence of closures. I just installed the patch below. Stefan --- doc/lispref/functions.texi 2013-01-01 09:11:05 +0000 +++ doc/lispref/functions.texi 2013-05-29 00:16:58 +0000 @@ -196,9 +196,8 @@ @end example @noindent -In Emacs Lisp, such a list is valid as an expression---it evaluates to -itself. But its main use is not to be evaluated as an expression, but -to be called as a function. +In Emacs Lisp, such a list is a valid expression which evaluates to +a function object. A lambda expression, by itself, has no name; it is an @dfn{anonymous function}. Although lambda expressions can be used this way