From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68863: Add support for using setf with seq-subseq Date: Thu, 09 May 2024 09:55:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <050ba625-2372-425f-85c6-988e2ef4cf14@protonmail.com> <86y1bvw5ff.fsf@gnu.org> <2dfd9d7f-5c63-4e1d-845c-cd245a71fc34@protonmail.com> <8d2a8d06-5b69-4587-9aab-36f7c792c623@protonmail.com> <1fca0de5-236e-428f-9224-b03a4d7d6998@protonmail.com> <5db43ef0-f218-4790-b263-a3eb80929d9b@protonmail.com> <87cypvmb8j.fsf@web.de> Reply-To: Stefan Monnier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30988"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 68863@debbugs.gnu.org, okamsn@protonmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, nicolas@petton.fr To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 09 15:57:05 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1s54Gd-0007oU-Q9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 15:57:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s54GF-0004zJ-JN; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:56:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s54GD-0004z2-8f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:56:37 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s54GC-0001mX-UP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:56:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s54Gc-00034g-Gq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:57:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 09 May 2024 13:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68863 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68863-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68863.171526299611761 (code B ref 68863); Thu, 09 May 2024 13:57:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68863) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 May 2024 13:56:36 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55400 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s54G9-00033d-JF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:56:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:46493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s54G3-00033X-Vt for 68863@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 May 2024 09:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D5885441560; Thu, 9 May 2024 09:55:55 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1715262954; bh=4alfRfEMXqM8gDmTujxlpsNoRIsvSOItMo98epnME/U=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=gr2vC8+3YjyyzFmpJ3iL5mMf15lMqNGRO3YPerFs0pxDK1Fs5shi8UHSJ80F/BKGr 07yVeXa0OEHZLrsiA1lK6B/DVNTr83jWnPb9/qYdI2K30+QCuPkpyfH8Jsl7P6OwpG 8e+yvs82uShw5I0yyqKNxMkqia9IWIuncjYriLr4OYkrKeVYxBaJ9ovTku8Jv4eJ6R yf6l+Prn433d8SiWPuGjlpP/iivV4TWblpfJNhdk1BfSSi1PpYhRPbc/2v0C1M6Pg9 +FXgdBeWkT3LipSvSKwBRqjcCdbQIb8HQEyhtPc1d+Tn541Lptx+6UjaZj8J8+kjaF jqf9cYNY31Gew== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6560E441423; Thu, 9 May 2024 09:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.201.215]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 345FF1206FE; Thu, 9 May 2024 09:55:54 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87cypvmb8j.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Thu, 09 May 2024 14:16:28 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:284756 Archived-At: > Some time ago we have removed lots of or even the majority of the > so far implemented generalized variables. > > The main criteria were: are they useful, and is the semantics clear. We > should think about whether this is the case here. Agreed. We should not lose track of the fact that we're talking about "generalized variables". Treating `(seq-subset ...)` as a "generalized variable" (aka a "place") is stretching the idea, which we can see in the fact that there are several different alternative ways to implement the feature with incompatible semantics. IOW, as a general rule a function that returns a fresh new value is often not a good candidate for a "gv-place". That doesn't mean we can't accept such a change (I'm pretty sure we do have and (ab)use such gv-places), but that it has to be weighed against its practical usefulness. IOW, I'd like to see existing code where we could make use of it to simplify the code. That might also help decide decide which semantics would be preferable. Stefan