From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joaotavora@gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs pretest -- electric-pair-mode change Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:21:34 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87d2h0ujls.fsf_-_@kitaj.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396525761 26322 80.91.229.3 (3 Apr 2014 11:49:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 11:49:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 03 13:49:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WVeJr-00075K-6u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:52:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39911 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVOrH-0000KS-VS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:21:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46113) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVOrA-0000KC-9r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:21:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVOr4-0001gb-NW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:21:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::229]:47753) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVOr4-0001gP-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:21:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id n12so581247wgh.0 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=UiP/CPSgrrUtRmExfFkqXNwVhMb3Nl2R147YIArKQ2Y=; b=u5JqH263uLMHLfpvr/w4Nr4y7OqEP9z47tTX3mRJvC1EFS2JvxTcNFmZkmgQYutBZA nOYIqAYmmFylk1/EikUiTNZhYypldmgypFE4R2hmd1Qe+FSiGbilCIdzD9bqcRY2L/eK aZQdBXtHYlp7ZThYBGhcEu5KAo2YI7lV6B0dakz9QkIo7l10NQlqDUtWas+HzXf0R0kH eqnjVnYZuYwf67dh2iJInTu5Putxqu98WxStWg9dEOH6CJ1bIJzpYxNbF/BuNWUnsb8G 85KNvsjqI6jJfHOEjnylq+A9XX1WgL8NBDDWOL/2Nqf8VcRFiYzjK3JZQuj9pF/XjyhC OTOw== X-Received: by 10.180.12.233 with SMTP id b9mr30070941wic.8.1396459297621; Wed, 02 Apr 2014 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from BELMONTE.yourcompany.com (a81-84-241-129.static.cpe.netcabo.pt. [81.84.241.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h19sm5858911wiw.17.2014.04.02.10.21.36 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Apr 2014 10:21:36 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:171265 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> Any chance this makes it to the pretests and 24.4? > > I don't think there's a hurry, in this respect. It's a UI change, so we > can change it later without breaking other people's code. The problem is not breaking code, but users' expectations of the upcoming feature. To undestand exactly what we're talking about: typing a single " double quote in front with point at just before the "Hello" ss << Hello"; Will produce, both with and without the fix, the expected ss << "Hello"; But only with the fix will you get the same result when your buffer contents are ss << Hello" << 42 << "World"; Without the fix you will get ss << ""Hello" << 42 << "World"; This last behaviour is also arguable but it is "way too clever", almost buggy. The trunk's behaviour is better: it always inhibits pairing, the surprising electric action, whenever there is unbalance, and as such is more predictable. >> `electric-pair-preserve-balance' is a new feature and the old behaviour >> for quote-pairing will almost surely annoy any new adopters. > > We'll see if we get many complaints. There might be complaints of people currently using my autopair.el that follow my advice to go with electric-pair-mode in emacs 24.4. But I can/will only tell them that once 24.4 is out. >> Anyway I've haven't gotten little feedback for this feature, negative or >> positive. > > `electric-pair-mode' (even the old one) is not a commonly used option, > IIUC. This is largely because it's not enabled by default, many people > don't like/want such a feature, and those who do want it have many ways > to get it, many of which predate electric-pair-mode. There is a fair, maybe even great, number of people using autopair.el, which does what Emacs's trunk now does, and smartparens.el which doesn't provide any balancing at all. But both being predictable, these users these packages are less likely to switch or even try electric-pair-mode if it feels alien or hard to predict, which IMO was *exactly* the problem with the "old" electric-pair-mode. > I do hope/expect it to become the standard way to get the feature, > but it'll take a little while to get there. I'm not arguing that it should be made default in 24.4 or even later versions, but you can expect a slower route if releases contain this particular gratutious idiosyncrasy, one that I regret having implemented back in october without sufficent review/feedback (or am I mistaken and did you or anyone else think about this particular edge case?) Jo=E3o