From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add a separate mode for .dir-locals.el Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2019 20:00:38 +0100 Message-ID: References: <2058328b-aee5-8cb1-2659-a793e1354517@mit.edu> <87wod4m7sr.fsf@gnus.org> <835zkndcz4.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftjrbjhm.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftjr9sx4.fsf@gnu.org> <83eezb9s5b.fsf@gnu.org> <83bluf9qgb.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="97295"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (windows-nt) Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 17 21:09:14 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iLB97-000PAq-Sa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 21:09:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57312 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLB96-0004Dt-JZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 15:09:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36541) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iLB0z-0003eh-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 15:00:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLB0u-0002t9-A8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 15:00:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:33325) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iLB0u-0002sx-3i; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 15:00:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id b9so3589480wrs.0; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:00:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lhDQVFDrMpmlXtLQ+Z3VRvWvNZF23FtsjwxRTTxMf50=; b=a+9zJbwrGrjIpDu1Ey2r848U0HCYtEnzYXRZo9RjGDbKeMSHgqNee9VXakHrfAem2z 6JnXTcN2dDxeQ8bdIfrRLxsjNwlJ37hf4ULQfVwvkgzgSGVWi8bMq1/UD2WP8MqQgC0J ijv7qV+1Gm4CxzfENlQzBOiTSNR3EgFBOc8G7Fs7U9w6569wnsqrh3RStOmtMfPSYkeE GUm7VqOiGSBcP09rUEZdNLNLjYgj6IdbcEfuVM7f4w3R0tW1xY+MG9i4XwA8VHyr8g9i BR4zCUKoKxTir1RLx8Kk4FrtdfCCvYQ16tUgB1XPui2Yk7tHmvbj4FByPGn9SxKP9PDf I41w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lhDQVFDrMpmlXtLQ+Z3VRvWvNZF23FtsjwxRTTxMf50=; b=j4gBTSLQVOWdzYRVSHYiZWEavafeq8BxfeeEcsnJ5MykptedKTBGe/I7gzY7DAMlHC habzQAkNAPCt4PNyL4WRnCxRj+anagKPFh0r4CDtgLUNGPlcTkv0jqj6VEvZiw+ZUFz2 l9bfBhGt1C/EwN5RQV8ACYNjRCB0OEM9PRQMcWEDM8FN6tP7qYbSSOWeBkh5BN9Jc0xT L0hIKwy2NMuhmdoSlgliDsUrntHAfyBP0VF3WwcuvPM9m96fE+R1akwQ/2p3CRG5pjuR jk+ytAYaRN2p52atfFjsaa3LWlXNtRC7+lkchGMzEKKs28cOWN65hbtnoFcqbT1h7Qmm Ouuw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXIhYl4z0A6FGskN1BpxpdsdBOh4UDHckeDpVUAFLR+Yv0igTqs n4P8PbZfIkgjGzNAM01DJknoZ9dN X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzLOS62pVLRNZ689q9CJBtQav4XvfylDJNRANoe66Lpd+Zik6VifUYy3i0HMaevrG86BUg6Wg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f704:: with SMTP id r4mr4319205wrp.30.1571338842723; Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from GONDOMAR.yourcompany.com (mail1.siscog.pt. [89.115.233.242]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p85sm3129961wme.23.2019.10.17.12.00.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83bluf9qgb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 17 Oct 2019 21:28:36 +0300") X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 191015-6, 16-10-2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::42e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:241168 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Also, with all due respect, your "opinion" is less important to me than >> the material reasons that you advance to justify it. I just though >> "it's gross" wasn't a sufficiently developed reason. > "Opinion", in quotes? really? Thanks a lot, that's a great way to > enhance my motivation to continue being a co-maintainer for this > project. I'm truly very sorry you interpreted it this way, and for the record I think you're a great co-maintainer. I didn't mean quotes to be meant in a way that belittled your statement: you'll just have to believe me, I meant them as in I was quoting you. And I know "gross" has a precise technical meaning in this list (I've seen you use it more often). And I take the point that you don't like to be pressed and will not insist beyond this point (except for a reply to your recent arguments, of course). > "Gross" means that it solves the problem not where it is caused, and > thus makes the maintenance harder by spreading information far from > where it should be. Who will remember that we introduced this mode > to fix that particular problem, No need: we introduce this change to fix a class of problems, not a particular one. The particular situation regarding the flymake-diagnostic-functions local happens to fit in that class. It's a symptom of misdesign, not a cause. But others have suggested more situations. I don't think the same xref-backend-functions apply to .dir-locals or ~/.emacs.d/recentf files for example. > and who will know that it may need to be updated or removed, depending > on the future development of Flymake? No one will remember. I don't understand: the exact same maintenance effort motivated by a that hypothetical change to Flymake will be exerted whether we do this change or don't. That's easy to see from Stefan's patch: the same number of mentions (2) to flymake-diagnostic-functions persist in the exact same places where they did before, which is the major mode function emacs-lisp-mode. There is no duplication, inheritance is linear and models "is a". The only quite far-fetched scenario I could think up is if some code out there actually relies on the fact that emacs-lisp-mode is derived _directly_ from prog-mode. Other than that, I really don't see drawbacks to this. And, to state the obvious, since I see drawbacks to the other solutions, I am for this one. > I suggested to look at the other similar files and try to describe > their common traits as a means to arrive at the decision whether we > might need some variant of ELisp mode for such files. One common trait is being lisp data that is READable. Another common trait is being structured data, so syntax is the same, sexp navigation automatically applies, as does electric-pair-mode, etc. Basically, whatever is in lisp-mode-variables, as someone pointed-out. I think the proposed name, emacs-lisp-data-mode, sums it up well. Jo=E3o