From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kevin Rodgers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#10600: 24.0.92; `describe-char': text properties and [Show] Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 00:01:13 -0700 Message-ID: References: <43455C94792A40C9BD76AAB657A8BCC1@us.oracle.com> <87ipjxd2jo.fsf@gnu.org> <1200228C8BF9437F8F41033C2F1991D0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328166113 24376 80.91.229.3 (2 Feb 2012 07:01:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 07:01:53 +0000 (UTC) To: 10600@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 02 08:01:52 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqg3-0004fH-Lg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:01:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59229 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqg2-0006wA-QG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36569) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqfv-0006sO-Su for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqfp-0008C6-Ut for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:43 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:46286) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqfp-0008Bz-Qp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsqgE-00011F-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:02:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Kevin Rodgers Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10600 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.13281660753863 (code B ref -1); Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:02:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2012 07:01:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsqfS-00010F-2c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51981) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsqfO-0000zx-A4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:01:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqep-00085e-R1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:00:39 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:33600) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqep-00085Y-OD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:00:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqem-0006Wg-33 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:00:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqei-000845-Bf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:00:32 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqei-00083t-4F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 02:00:28 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rsqeg-0004BG-DG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:00:26 +0100 Original-Received: from c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([71.237.25.24]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:00:26 +0100 Original-Received: from kevin.d.rodgers by c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:00:26 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 50 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-71-237-25-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/3.1.18 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:56371 Archived-At: On 1/28/12 10:15 AM, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 22:43, Drew Adams wrote: ... >> For another thing, the width of the window chosen to display the *Help* buffer >> text can depend on the width of that buffer text. That we do not do that often >> today is not a reason not to allow for it. That is exactly what I do with >> frames, for example: I fit the frame to the buffer text, and I rely upon the >> help functions to produce a reasonable buffer layout. > > So you're computing the window (and frame) width from the buffer text, > and complaining that you don't like how the buffer text is > distributed, because it exceeds the maximum width you want to give to > a window or frame. But, as reflowing the buffer text according to the > window width would defeat your method, the only option left is to > chose an arbitrary limit and stick to it, even if, in some cases, a > different width is best for most users... > > In many, but not all, *Help* buffers, reflowing or not reflowing their > contents is largely irrelevant. But for the output of describe-char, > the way it is now is IMHO much, *much* better that what you proposed > before (getting rid of the right-alignment of field names), and > certainly I don't think reflowing it would improve things, on the > contrary it would make them less clear. > >> But in that case, the key is to know what the display window is. That is a far >> cry from what we do today, which is to use the current window to guess the width >> of the to-be-displayed *Help* window. That makes no sense at all. > > I wouldn't go as far as to say that it does "make no sense at all", > because it obviously works in many common cases. But it is erroneous, > sure. > >> Yes there is, or there should be a wrap, for doc strings provided by Emacs itself. > > On the contrary, I disagree on that "should be". *Help* buffers try to > give useful information, and manual reflowing is almost always better > than automatic reflowing. It fails for some narrow windows, but that's > why we use 70 chars or so as a limit. Automatic reflow to support the > likely very few users who use extremelly narrow windows seems a waste > and a step back. Would it be feasible to create a temporary *Help* buffer/window/frame with no text at all, which is "displayed" by Emacs but not rendered to the user (i.e. not mapped by the terminal / window system), for the purpose of querying its width and using that value when filling the real *Help* buffer text? -- Kevin Rodgers Denver, Colorado, USA