terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Jari Aalto]

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In GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2004-08-03 on raven, modified by Debian
configured using `configure '--build=i386-linux' '--host=i386-linux' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=athena' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -g -O2' 'build_alias=i386-linux' 'host_alias=i386-linux''
Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US
  locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
and the precise symptoms of the bug:

I wuold like to propose that the

   terminal-escape-char ?\C-^

is changed to a better alternative. The ^ character (including ~) too
is not a natural key at least in Finnish keyboard. I don't know
the technical term, but it's those "dead" keys that need to be configured
separately.

I was ssh'ing to remote site and working in "emacs -nw" and opened
op M-x terminal-emulator, just to find out that there was nothing I
could do to get back to the Emacs where it was running. The default
key terminal-escape-char was not produced in this remote ssh connection.

I would propose this instead for default value:

  terminal-escape-char ?\C-'

Jari

Recent input:
ESC x r e p o r t - e m TAB RET

Recent messages:
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For information about the GNU Project and its goals, type C-h C-p.
Loading emacsbug...done

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Andreas Schwab]

Jari Aalto <jaalto@cante.net> writes:

> I wuold like to propose that the
>
>    terminal-escape-char ?\C-^
>
> is changed to a better alternative. The ^ character (including ~) too
> is not a natural key at least in Finnish keyboard. I don't know
> the technical term, but it's those "dead" keys that need to be configured
> separately.
>
> I was ssh'ing to remote site and working in "emacs -nw" and opened
> op M-x terminal-emulator, just to find out that there was nothing I
> could do to get back to the Emacs where it was running. The default
> key terminal-escape-char was not produced in this remote ssh connection.

On most terminals you should be able to produce C-^ by typing Ctrl-6.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux AG, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[jari.aalto]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:

> Jari Aalto <jaalto@cante.net> writes:
>
>> I wuold like to propose that the
>>
>>    terminal-escape-char ?\C-^
>>
>> is changed to a better alternative. The ^ character (including ~) too
>> is not a natural key at least in Finnish keyboard. I don't know
>> the technical term, but it's those "dead" keys that need to be configured
>> separately.
>>
>> I was ssh'ing to remote site and working in "emacs -nw" and opened
>> op M-x terminal-emulator, just to find out that there was nothing I
>> could do to get back to the Emacs where it was running. The default
>> key terminal-escape-char was not produced in this remote ssh connection.
>
> On most terminals you should be able to produce C-^ by typing Ctrl-6.

Thank you,

Indeed that seems to work, but it is non-intuitive. Who would know
that C-6 can be used as substitute of C-^?

I would like to see natural key used as default, which would not 
cause confusion and possible data loss (as in my case). Luckily
the #buffer# files were there. 

Key C-' would be  better, because

  .. you see the (') key - and you can reach it in all keyboards
  .. you press the Ctrol-key and that key

and is works. 

Jari

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Andreas Schwab]

jari.aalto@poboxes.com writes:

> Key C-' would be  better, because
>
>   .. you see the (') key - and you can reach it in all keyboards
>   .. you press the Ctrol-key and that key
>
> and is works. 

Except that C-' is not an ASCII control character, thus unusable with -nw.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux AG, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[jari.aalto]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:

> jari.aalto@poboxes.com writes:
>
>> Key C-' would be  better, because
>>
>>   .. you see the (') key - and you can reach it in all keyboards
>>   .. you press the Ctrol-key and that key
>>
>> and is works. 
>
> Except that C-' is not an ASCII control character, thus unusable with -nw.

Doh. If there really any other choice to C-^ 
What about C-\  ?

Jari

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Andreas Schwab]

jari.aalto@poboxes.com writes:

> What about C-\  ?

C-\ is even more difficult to type on many keyboards.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux AG, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Kevin Rodgers]

jari.aalto@poboxes.com wrote:
 > Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:
 >>Except that C-' is not an ASCII control character, thus unusable with -nw.
 >
 > Doh. If there really any other choice to C-^

This may be a naive question, but why isn't ESC (C-[) the
terminal-escape-character?

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[Andreas Schwab]

Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:

> jari.aalto@poboxes.com wrote:
>  > Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:
>  >>Except that C-' is not an ASCII control character, thus unusable with -nw.
>  >
>  > Doh. If there really any other choice to C-^
>
> This may be a naive question, but why isn't ESC (C-[) the
> terminal-escape-character?

I think that would interfere with function keys (function-key-map does not
override explicit bindings).

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux AG, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: terminal.el: terminal-escape-char impossible in European keyboards

[jari.aalto]

Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:

> jari.aalto@poboxes.com wrote:
| 
| > Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> writes:
| >>Except that C-' is not an ASCII control character, thus unusable with -nw.
| >
| > Doh. If there really any other choice to C-^
| 
> This may be a naive question, but why isn't ESC (C-[) the
> terminal-escape-character?

Good suggestion. I'd obvious as well and available in every keyboard.

Jari