From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24802: emacs -Q -nw loads cl-lib Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83twbzt0w9.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1477871417 24765 195.159.176.226 (30 Oct 2016 23:50:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 23:50:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) Cc: 24802@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 31 00:50:12 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrd-0005Yb-GO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 00:50:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60578 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrg-0001c2-3c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:50:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47669) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrX-0001bw-7u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:50:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrW-0001oQ-5n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:50347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrW-0001oH-2x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:50:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zrV-0006Tp-Qq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:50:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 23:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24802 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24802-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24802.147787137524868 (code B ref 24802); Sun, 30 Oct 2016 23:50:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24802) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2016 23:49:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37513 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zr5-0006T2-Co for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zr3-0006Sn-Bb for 24802@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zqx-0001hA-7x for 24802@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40395) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zqx-0001h6-4D for 24802@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c0zqw-0005lt-D2; Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:49:26 -0400 X-Spook: Methamphetamine Etacs White Powder keyhole AIEWS Dock X-Ran: C6S'L},>)w=8D`~v+)ZqoL(b(?e2#@'_gZk9jw5k3&!:}IL}7&Rg>$PE51?J/x,kLpwA3. X-Hue: brightgreen X-Attribution: GM In-Reply-To: <83twbzt0w9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 26 Oct 2016 21:34:30 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:125170 Archived-At: I'm saying that simply starting Emacs (and no more) should not load any extra libraries beyond those of loadup [1]. This is obviously not comparable to starting Emacs and then doing some arbitrary operation, like composing a mail. As you said in http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-10/msg00095.html Up until now, the rules for pre-loading package X were that either (a) some preloaded package requires X, or (b) X will be auto-loaded at the beginning of every session by some very frequent operation, like visiting the first file or creating a window or a frame. Here we have case b), without needing any operation at all. OK, it's not "every session", it's "every -nw session in an xterm-like terminal", but IMO the same should apply. [1] I don't count the actual term/*.el files themselves in this, because those that aren't preloaded have traditionally been trivial. Perhaps xterm.el has become so large, and is used (I guess) in such a large fraction of without-x builds, that it should be preloaded in such builds, as x-win.el is in with-x builds. I think that's a separate issue though. It would however make the issue in this report obvious.