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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID db3ea56035251694c0ec86636c42db9e; Wed, 03 Apr 2024 20:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <99b6071c01ae83b9cdc418c467a7e95b6940b5c5.camel@yandex.ru> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22205 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.133.42; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317503 Archived-At: Hi Eli: I won't come into this discussion but: My basic concept of OOSC (probably mistaken) is that the sources of the project are those required to reproduce a program, because otherwise it is not possible or are too difficult/expensive to reproduce. If I change project.el, then project.elc is not valid anymore and needs to be regenerated... so, project.el is the source and the elc is a target (not necessarily a final one) In the same line, when we do out of sources compilation it may be possible to remove the `build` directory and have the project sources exactly as downloaded from sources. Without any other clean needed... Also in same line, for example, when using GIT_NAMESPACE the project.el will change with the namespace, but the elc won't (as not tracked by git), so GIT_NAMESPACE becomes inconsistent and requires a regeneration of .elc, so, not a source, but a target Finally when executing from build1 it may be possible to access the version of project.elc used when the project was compiled in that directory... independently of if I changed project.el latter and compiled in build2. Latter actions in source + compilation in build2 should not affect the consistency of build1. On Wed, Apr 03, 2024 at 10:08:16PM +0300, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote: >On Wed, 2024-04-03 at 21:22 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > From: Konstantin Kharlamov >> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, >> > emacs-devel@gnu.org >> > Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2024 20:27:09 +0300 >> > >> > I hope now you understand why I'm saying Emacs doesn't fully >> > support it 😊 >> >> I still think you are mistaken.  What you call "out of tree build" is >> not what is generally meant by that. > >Okay, what do you consider meant by that? > >> Bootstrapping a repository >> invariably causes some "build artifacts" to be deposed in the source >> tree > >Sure, that's unfortunately how autotools work. On the upside though, >it is rare for these files to cause problems. Which can't be said >about .elc ones. > >> , and the more the project makes a point of not having generated >> files in the repository, the more artifacts are needed in the source >> tree before you can start building out of tree.   > >Citation needed 😄 You asked me previously for examples of projects >that do not generate any files in the tree, I provided you with that 😊 >I can certainly assure you that you don't necessarily have to generate >files "in tree". I worked with many different projects and distinct >build systems, so I have a lot of experience in that regard. Do you >have in mind some specific case that you see a problem with? > >> And that is >> perfectly okay, nothing wrong about that. > >There are problems with generating code in tree, some of which I did >show to you previously. Unless I misunderstand what you mean by that.